The ‘wilderness’ is not a concept that is understood too well in
Christendom, despite the fact that it is all the way through the
Bible. From the book of Genesis right through Revelation there
are clear references to the ‘wilderness’ as being something God
often employs in His dealings with men. The pattern is undeniable.
When we look through the Scriptures we see that the wilderness
is often a place of spiritual “crisis” and also preparation. It is the
place God sends us before the “real action” begins – before we
enter into the full purposes of God in our lives. There must be
‘death’ before there can be resurrection. There must be a desert
place before the “promised land”.
The wilderness is a place of trial and testing, of brokenness and
full surrender to God. The props and activities that have kept us
continually striving to “make things happen” are stripped away.
Our self-reliance is shattered and replaced with a total reliance on
God alone. Every “idol” in our lives (often including our own ministry)
is brought under the piercing searchlight of God. Our selfish motives
and ambitions are shown for what they are. This process may take
years. Finally we emerge broken, chastened and purified. The
process has matured and cleansed us in so many ways. We are
now ready for the fulfillment of all that God originally called us to
do. But our heart-motives are vastly different from what they were
before.
We see this pattern all the way through Scripture. Many lessons
can be learned from what we read there. Abraham, Joseph, Joshua,
Moses, David, Elijah, John the Baptist, Paul the apostle – and even
Jesus Himself – all had to go through this “wilderness” experience.
Very often it lasted for years and years. Why then should we be
surprised if it happens to us?
Probably the best-known instance of a ‘wilderness experience’ in
the Old Testament is the story of Moses and the children of Israel.
Moses had been raised and trained all his life in the palaces of
Egypt. But when he came face-to-face with his heritage as an
Israelite, he rose up “in his own strength” and killed an Egyptian
slave-driver. He was then forced to flee into the desert, where he
was to spend 40 YEARS as a simple shepherd in the wilderness.
What an enormous length of time! Imagine if every Christian leader
had to spend that long in the wilderness before God would allow
them to lead His people! It is almost impossible to imagine the
depths of despair and “death” to all his dreams and hopes that
Moses went through during this time. In fact, after 40 years it is
hard to imagine anyone being “deader” to the usual ambitions
and temptations of leadership than Moses would have been. And
what PATIENCE these years of waiting must have produced in him!
We see here the lengths that God will go to in the “preparation”
of a leader “after His own heart.” (-Though 40 years is unusually
long). The isolation, the chafing, the crying out to God for deliverance
- all play their part. Such an experience is almost irreplaceable.
That is why God uses it so often. The hearts of driven men are so
similar in so many ways, that God’s “cure” becomes similar also!
He will even shut us up in a kind-of ‘prison’ for a time so we cannot
escape the process. It is that important. He does not want ’self’-
oriented leaders shepherding his precious sheep.
After his 40 years of preparation, Moses returned to Egypt at God’s
command to lead His people out of bondage. This was the beginning
of the entire nation of Israels’ wilderness experience. For when they
left Egypt the only way to their “Promised Land” was through the
desert. Some commentators say that in a straight line, their journey
could have taken just a few weeks or less. But because of their
disobedience and fear, the vast majority of those who left Egypt
were destined to die in the desert, never reaching the Promised
Land. In fact, their wilderness journey ended up taking 40 years!
Now we need to take special note of this fact:- Not everyone who
entered the wilderness survived it. In fact, multitudes perished there.
The wilderness tried them and found them wanting. They went to
the place of testing and failed the test. This is a pretty crucial fact
to realize in our day also. Just because we are “called out” and
enter a wilderness time, does not mean that we will embrace the
dealings of God and respond appropriately. It is entirely possible
to lose everything out there. These people lost out completely.
Only their children came through to inherit the promises of God.
How clearly we see this pattern over and over again – in both the
Old Testament and the New:- That many whom God wants to one
day use are sent into a place of aloneness and brokenness before
being brought into their true destiny. We have not even mentioned
heroes of God such as Noah, Jacob, Job and others who all had
similar experiences. Part of this process lies in the “waiting” that
takes place. Also, the fact that all the supporting ‘props’ are taken
away. The “waiting” alone can be torture.
The wilderness also deals with any fear of man or ’systemized’
way of looking at things. God often uses it to bring a whole fresh
perspective, which is very important for leaders who are going to
be representing a “new” approach or facing opposition because of
the confrontational words that they are bringing. The lonely desert
years give them backbone to stand up to the crowd or the powers-
that-be, and declare God’s truth without compromise. They now
truly fear God rather than man. And they think differently from
others. The wilderness is vital for anyone who is wanting to bring
fresh manna to God’s people.
Are you someone who has been going through such a “desert”
experience, my friend? Be encouraged! Look up, for your deliverance
draws nigh. God only ever sends His children through such
experiences when there is a great purpose to it. Don’t give up. Don’t
be cast down. On the other side lies a ‘land of promise’ if only you
can hang on to Jesus. Be active, be praying, be prepared. Don’t
become “passive” and let the desert swallow you whole. Use this
time to draw closer and closer to Jesus. Dig down and plant your
feet firmly on the Rock. Humble yourself before the Lord and He
will lift you up in due time – if only you can cling to Him.
EMERGENT CHURCH is SPREADING SPIRITUAL CANCER
-Extracts by Marsha West.
In the Sixties the counterculture rejected consumerism,
individualism, traditional values and ideas, and protested against
their parent’s middle class values…. Now a similar assault on
historic orthodox Christianity is underway…
In John 8:31-32 Jesus said, “If you abide in my word, you are
truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth
will set you free.”
There is a growing movement afoot in the postmodern Church
that does not abide in God’s Word; hence they do not know
the truth. The movement calls itself “Emergent” or “Emerging
Church” (ECM) and it’s emerging away from orthodox Christianity,
spreading its spiritual cancer throughout the globe. ECM change
agents have made inroads into evangelicalism, big time. What
they preach is a counterfeit social gospel. They say they bring
a “message of peace.” Their hope is to make Christianity more
palatable to the world. Sounds altruistic, doesn’t it? But don’t
believe it! In order to accomplish their lofty goal, the shifters
must first repackage the Church.
So they’re touring the country, promoting their social gospel and
message of peace to the masses. Prominent ECM leader Brian
McLaren is spearheading the “Everything Must Change” tour.
According to McLaren’s website the planet is in Deep Shift – A
time of transition rethinking re-imagining and re-envisioning.
You may not have heard about The Shift yet, but you will – soon!
Shifters, like pod people, are in our midst… They lecture,
write for Christian news sources and they’re all over the Internet.
Now they’re touring the country. Many shifters are familiar faces
on TV and have become media darlings. Browse through your local
Christian bookstore and you’ll find their names lined up on shelves.
Brian McLaren, Jim Wallis, Tony Campolo, Marcus Borg, Dallas
Willard, Leonard Sweet, Erwin McManus, Phyllis Tickle , Rob Bell,
Dan Kimball, Doug Pagitt, Tony Jones, Scot McKnight, Eddie Gibbs,
Ryan Bolger, Jeff & Sherry Maddock, Peter Rollins, to name a few.
Every one of them are theological liberals!
But shifters are offended when they’re labeled liberal. And
besides, liberal is so yesterday! And let’s be honest here;
liberal has a negative connotation, thanks largely to vociferous
conservatives…
ECM’s beginnings
In his article, “Understanding the Emergent Church” Walter
Henenger says that while some of ECM’s leaders came of age
in the “new paradigm” churches of the Sixties and Seventies,
“the real starting point was the mid-1980s, when Gen X
ministries began catering to youth culture…”
In my research I ran across a panel discussion on You Tube,
“Let’s Talk Post-Modernism and the Emergent Church.”[16]
Here highly regarded orthodox theologians R.C. Sproul, Albert
Mohler and Ravi Zacharias had a “conversation” about
postmodernism, modernism, liberalism, and ECM.
The main thrust of ECM, the scholars say, is its rejection of
modernism and its embrace of postmodernism. Why reject
orthodoxy? Because the orthodoxy are absolutists. Absolutists
want to reinsert categories of right and wrong, whereas
postmodernists balk at doctrinal assertions. They gave as an
example Brian McLaren’s position on homosexuality in a Time
Magazine interview. Following is the excerpt from Time:
“Frankly, many of us don’t know what we should think about
homosexuality. We’ve heard all sides but no position has yet
won our confidence so that we can say ‘it seems good to the
Holy Spirit and us.’ That alienates us from both the liberals
and conservatives who seem to know exactly what we should
think.” So McLaren suggested a five-year moratorium on making
pronouncements. And what will we do in the meantime? He
went on to say, “[W]e’ll practice prayerful Christian dialogue,
listening respectfully, disagreeing agreeably. When decisions
need to be made, they’ll be admittedly provisional. We’ll keep
our ears attuned to scholars in biblical studies, theology,
ethics, psychology, genetics, sociology, and related fields.
Then in five years , if we have clarity, we’ll speak; if not, we’ll
set another five years for ongoing reflection.”[17]
Um.the Bible says homosexuality is a sin, Brian. (Lev. 18:22,
Lev. 20:13, Rom.1:26-28, 1 Cor. 6:9-10,)
McLaren’s wishy-washy comment on homosexuality obviously
did not go over well with the panel. Near the end of the
discussion Albert Mohler commented that his response to the
homosexual question is the very essence of postmodernism.
He then cautioned, “It is the abdication of Christian responsibility.
It is the abdication of Christian conviction and it is a cave in of
Christian courag e. We do have an answer! And it’s not like we
don’t know what it is!”
As R.C. Sproul said so well, ECM appeals to Christians “who
don’t want to have to deal with theological conflict.” These same
folks relativize doctrine, and that makes Sproul angry. He then
points out that disagreeing doctrinally is a “bad thing.” Looking
rather grim-faced he said, “We can’t be satisfied with it. Because
truth is too important to kill it in the streets for the sake of peace!
You can’t do it!” Bravo!
The Emergent movement is most definitely gaining currency,
especially with young people and those who are dissatisfied
with mainline evangelicalism. Which is the reason it’s
imperative that committed Christians take a deeper look
into the “conversation.” Listen carefully to the language to see
whether or not what a person purports is within the pale of
orthodoxy. In other words, check to see if it’s biblical. Because
if the “conversation” doesn’t line up with Scripture, it’s not from
God. And if it’s not from God.it’s from the pit of hell.
What does the term “Passion for Jesus” mean to you? Would it surprise you to learn that whole Christian movements are now using it to mean a kind-of “eros” love for Jesus – a ‘passion’ for Him similar to what an earthly husband and wife have for each other? (-From the word “eros” we ultimately get the word ‘erotic’). And what does the term “Intimacy with Jesus” mean to you? Would it surprise you to learn that many are now using it to mean sensual “romantic” encounters with Jesus – with Him as the Bridegroom and them as the ‘Bride’?
You may think that such unscriptural practices must be out on the “fringe” somewhere. Surely they cannot be part of mainstream Christianity? Well, look around you, because this stuff is now everywhere. I live very close to one of the world’s largest and most influential prayer centers here in Kansas City – and it has been a major source of this “Jesus as Romantic Lover” teaching for many years. And now it is all around the world. At this center you will find hundreds of young men and women who will tell you about being “ravished” for Jesus, “kissing” Jesus and ’swooning’ in His arms, etc. Their entire understanding of “WHO GOD IS” and their relationship with Him is being shaped by this teaching. -And it is an utter twisting of Scripture.
Why is it important to have a right concept of “WHO GOD IS”? Why does it matter so much? Well, this one thing shapes everything else about our faith and our relationship with the Lord. At the heart of a lot of cults and deceptions is a fundamental mis-apprehension of the true character and nature of God – ie. “Who He is – How we approach Him”. It really does affect EVERYTHING.
Now, imagine that there is a new doctrine that re-invents our very understanding of God – a doctrine that sweeps the world and catches up many young people. So, is this new doctrine based on a careful exegesis of the New Testament, you ask? -No! To your surprise you find that it is largely based on “spiritualizing” the SONG OF SOLOMON. Yes, that’s right. An entire re-inventing of our relationship with God based not on the New Testament, but on Solomon’s love-poetry about the body and breasts and comeliness of one of his 700 wives. -Wonderful poetry to be sure, but what kind of basis is that for such a drastic change in our basic beliefs?
(So is there no benefit to be gained from an ‘allegorical’ understanding of the Song Of Solomon? -Certainly there is! Hudson Taylor and others used it this way. But that is not the point I am making. The real issue is this:- Should we re-invent our entire understanding of “Who God is” and how we approach Him – to fit in with a tiny book of semi-erotic poetry from the Old Testament? Should this become our dominant understanding of God?)
As history shows us again and again, to the equal degree that we lose our grasp of the real character and nature of God – to this same degree we will lose genuine Christianity. You cannot have the true New Testament Faith if you have lost the true New Testament Jesus. -Which is why it is so serious when people say that in the West today we have invented a kind-of “American Jesus” to suit our self-centered, “me”-focused lifestyle. They point out that today you mostly hear of a Jesus who exists to make you “happy” rather than holy, a Jesus who is always a “friend” but never a Judge, a Jesus who does not any longer hate sin or demand repentance, but only wants you prosperous and ‘blessed’. This is a Jesus that utterly suits our selfish Western mindset, but is found nowhere in the Bible.
And the new “Jesus As Lover” doctrine is just another twist in the ongoing tale of modern Christians distorting the character and nature of God.
Does Jesus love us? Of course He does – more than words can tell. And are we to love Him? Of course! -With all our heart, mind, soul and strength! But does this mean that we are to approach Him with a sensual “romantic” love, like some adolescent schoolgirl, “swooning” and smooching with our ‘lover’ Jesus? Is that what God’s love means? Are we to exchange ‘agape’ for emotional “eros” and act like Jesus’s “girlfriend” here on earth? (-Men as well as women?) God forbid!
Of course we know that in Scripture the corporate body of Christ (particularly at the end of the age) is described as the “Bride” of Christ. But isn’t it obvious that this is talking about the ‘CORPORATE’ Body – not individual Christians? Are we each to become Jesus’s little “girlfriends” here on earth – or is it the “WHOLE BODY” that is to one day be the Bride of Christ? -Clearly it is the latter.
The effect of this doctrine on young men is particularly distressing. To describe it as “effeminate” is quite an understatement. As it is, the modern church is already known for being an “anti-masculine” zone, with its flower displays, pink walls, mauve carpets, emotion- laden music, etc. A lot of commentators point to this when discussing the low attendance of men in our churches. But this new doctrine takes this theme to undreamt-of depths.
Can you imagine zealous praying young men who relate to Jesus (ie. another MALE) as a “lover” whom they kiss and ’swoon’ over? Can you imagine what happens when this becomes their basic approach to God? -And this is just the beginning of the gender- bending weirdness that is starting to become “normal” in this movement. (Some are in such deception that they even have experiences of “Jesus” kissing them on the mouth, etc. The movement itself warns against “sensual encounters” but their very teaching leads directly to this kind of thing. Deceiving spirits are always super-active in this kind of environment. Where do you think the famed ‘incubus’ and ’succubus’ originate from?)
The ironic thing is that a lot of the people who are into this doctrine claim to be “seeking Revival”. They really think that this is the kind of ‘intimacy’ that God desires. It is greatly influencing the modern ‘Prayer’ movement, the Prophetic movement and the ‘Worship’ movement (-which explains the recent rash of songs with “Song of Solomon” type themes: “I kiss you with the kisses of my mouth”, “Take me into your chamber”, etc).
I find their talk of “Revival” particularly ironic, because I have studied Revival for many years, and I am aware that all the old Revivalists prayed to a God who is very different from what is being presented here. -And their understanding of “WHO GOD IS” was utterly crucial to their obtaining Revival. They prayed to a God of holiness and majesty and awe – a God of glory who hates sin, yet sent His son to die for sinners.
The God that the old Revivalists prayed to was the “throneroom” God that Isaiah described- “I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple… And one cried to another and said, Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts: The whole earth is full of his glory. And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.” (Is 6:1-5).
This is the “throneroom” God who is described again in Revelation chapter 4 – where we are told that the four beasts cry, “Holy, holy, holy” day and night without ceasing, and the 24 elders cast down their crowns before His throne – over and over again. It is “HOLINESS” that is the chief characteristic of God! No other characteristic is ever repeated three times together in the Bible – let alone over and over, day and night! -”HOLY, HOLY, HOLY.”
And actually, the full title of the book of Revelation is the “Revelation of Jesus Christ”. So in other words, it is a ‘revealing’ of who Jesus is and what He is really like. And when John (the ‘beloved’ disciple) first sees the glorified Christ in Revelation 1, we are told that such is His terror-inducing holiness and glory that John fell at his feet “as though dead.” -This is the true Jesus – as He really is.
In every true Revival, it is the God of majesty who reveals himself. For Revival is the “Glory of God” coming down. It is His very ‘throneroom’ presence coming down amongst men. Thus, even His own children should approach Him with awe. And if we do not pray to this God, then we should not expect Revival at all. -That is one of the basic lessons of Revival history. -We must pray to the ‘RIGHT GOD’ if we are going to see true Revival.
Incidentally, the ‘Bride of Christ’ in Revelation is described as a ‘holy city’ – a “new Jerusalem” coming down from heaven. (Rev 21). So it is clearly a ‘CORPORATE’ entity that exists at the end of the age. -Not some individualized “girlfriend of Jesus” in the here-and-now.
It is a very serious thing to tamper with our understanding of ‘WHO GOD IS’ and how we relate to Him. In a lot of ways it is like preaching “another Jesus”. -It really is that bad. If you hear phrases today like ‘Lovesick for Jesus’, ‘Bridal Paradigm’, “Bridal intimacy”, “Inflamed heart”, ‘Romancing’, “Ravished”, ‘Fascinated’, etc, then you can be pretty sure that you are being exposed to this deceptive doctrine. I believe it is serious error, and I urge you to flee from it as far as you can, my friends.
READERS REPLY TO THE ABOVE ARTICLE:
“D–” writes:
I ran into this a few weeks ago at our home fellowship. A woman whom I see to be very Spirit filled, was talking to us at the dinner table about being taken into the “upper chambers” where Jesus laid her down on a bed of roses (because He is the Rose of Sharon He can do that, she said), and that He made love to her. She described to me this whole scene as if it were out of a romance novel. The thought of Jesus actually making love to me made me sick… I was actually disheartened, grieved and shocked that she was talking about this. What gets me is that her friends who were with her all agreed as if this was sound biblical doctrine.
[NOTE: The above email is not from Kansas City - but rather from elsewhere in the USA. It is a good example of what is happening as this doctrine spreads around the world. Please note that the prayer center in Kansas City does NOT teach in any way that we should have sexual or 'physical' encounters with Jesus. However, their teaching certainly lays the groundwork for it - and is the ultimate cause of it, in my opinion. Their claim is that it is "immature" believers who are misusing and distorting their teaching.
Well yes - of course! But they are actually preaching it to thousands of "immature" believers themselves! In fact, this seems to be their "target" audience. The hundreds of young people at their own prayer center boast an average age of 22 years, reportedly. So yes - a whole lot of "immature" believers are being greatly influenced by this doctrine. Tell me then - whose fault is this? Is it right for the KC leadership to simply wash its hands of the evil effects that this doctrine is having around the world? Isn't this actually the "fruit" of this teaching? -Isn't it producing "bad fruit" wherever it goes?]
“J—-” writes:
I just went to a ladies retreat two weeks ago and the theme was this same “lover Jesus” as portrayed in a book they used called, “With an Everlasting Love”… It was so Godless and selfish and full of “eros”, putting thoughts and feelings in whoever reads it that certainly did not bring glory to God… I now have the opportunity to confront the pastor’s wife about this teaching that literally every woman fell for (except me!) and was “wooed” by their sensuality as women and the need for love, that they sucked it right up.
“R—” writes:
I moved here to KC 2 years ago to attend [the PrayerCenter]… I have been so confused by the whole up-sweep of the “Bridal Paradigm” and ravished heart of Jesus and Song of Solomon. I cannot relate to Jesus as romantic lover, nor do I want to!! I am trying to have clean thoughts and a pure heart. I want a Godly husband to be that for me, to model Christ’s love and headship. All my friends tell me, “Jesus is your husband – let Him be your first love and your provider”. As if I should shun men and give up on the idea of marriage.
The Editor of a Prophetic Newsletter – who follows the whole movement closely – writes:
I too have been concerned about this for a while. In particular I have seen much written about intimacy without any reference to obeying the revealed will of God. Jesus said, “If you love me, you will obey my commands.” The intimacy emphasis is not just out of balance, it is dangerously soulish, promising emotional experiences and opening up the way to deceiving spirits if pursued too far.
“C—” writes:
What’s amazing is how the presence of this teaching is like yeast. For a few years I was among believers who had absorbed ‘bridal paradigm’ teaching out of KC. It had a weird way of rubbing off. Even though I’d never even encountered it myself directly, for awhile I’d unwittingly absorbed some of it & had some dreams I now know came from unclean spirits. Thankfully my discernment antennaes began picking up on & rejecting the unholy nature of all this. Like many such excesses, it’s the mixture that results when deception is mingled with the pure revelation of the Spirit that’s so very, very deadly.
“L—” writes:
There is a strange message behind this Bridal Paradigm. -It was shown at the CALL in Kansas City. I was there. I witnessed this. There was a call to all those young people who were in attendance at this KC gathering and a few older – to pledge a marriage covenant right then that night to be MARRIED to Christ.
There was a Marriage Canopy held up for a marriage procession as hundreds marched under it as to become covenantly married to Christ. They made it seem so righteous and holy – So – many threw away their discernment and followed the leaders – forgetting that the marriage actually takes place in heaven at the marriage supper of the Lamb.
CBN NEWS REPORT – JAN 6, 2002:
“THE CALL” IN KANSAS CITY: A Marriage Covenant with Jesus. By Wendy Griffith, CBN News Reporter.
Some 20,000 mostly young people packed the Kansas CityConvention Center on New Year’s Eve for a wedding ceremony unlike any other… as each person who came embarked on a marriage covenant with the Bridegroom of Heaven… From noon until midnight they danced and sang, fasted and prayed, and got ready to get married to Jesus.
“There’s going to be a wedding and God is raising up friends of the Bridegroom to prepare the church, there’s going to be a wedding!”
One by one, thousands of men and women, young and old, made their vows and walked under the prayer shawl symbolizing their commitment to Jesus.
[A COMMENTATOR NOTES: The huppah is in fact an integral part of a binding WEDDING CEREMONY between man and woman; therefore what these young people were doing was getting married - but to whom? The Bible tells us that the marriage of the Lamb takes place "in heaven" and only at the Day of Redemption when all believers are gathered in. It does not take place on earth as a "preparation" for the Lord's coming].
Continuing the CBN Report…
“Stewart Greaves, a 30-year-old, said, “I really feel like the Lord is calling young people to fall madly in love with Him. I’ve always felt that the difference between religion and relationship is intimacy with Jesus…”
Here in Kansas City, there has already been a tremendous focus on the bridal love of Jesus… where for three and a half years, a team of prophetic singers, intercessors and others have held 24-hour-a-day praise and worship focusing on Jesus as the bridegroom. [-END of NEWS REPORT].
FROM a BOOK that is Required Reading at the School of this Kansas City prayer center:
“He [God] has given Himself to both the exhilarations and the woundings of a lovesick heart. When He gazes upon me, He sees through the eyes of love and desire. He comes before me and says, ‘I am a Man in love. I am a God that burns with desire, and I have set My affections on you. I am an all-consuming fire of love, and you are the inheritance that My Father has promised me. Will you receive My love?’” (Pg 57).
“O Gaze Eternal,
How penetrating are Your Fires
Rushing through my darkest places
With the burning streams of Desire
Leaving me naked, purged and bare
… Yet embraced…
You take hold of my weakest places
And kiss them with Your mercy
Lifting up my low grounds
With your mighty love so holy…” (Pg 52).
“She lifted her arms wide to the Lord and said with all of her strength and her love, ‘Enjoy me. Right here, right now, in my absolute weakness, enjoy me.’” (Pg 84).
[NOTE: The above book goes on and on in a similar vein for 200 pages. We remind you again that this is an officially recommended publication at this Kansas City prayer center, with a Foreword by the LEADER of the movement himself. It is "Required Reading" for the young people at their ministrySchool.
When they talk about a Bridal "Paradigm" - what do they mean? Well, a 'paradigm' is a new mindset or "world-view". These people are now viewing Jesus and Christianity through an entirely new set of lenses, so to speak - ie. Through this 'BRIDAL' Paradigm. -For many, that is now their dominant understanding of Jesus Christ.]
TRUE “INTIMACY” WITH GOD
-by Andrew Strom.
With all this talk about the error of the “Jesus as Romantic Lover” teaching, I don’t want to give the impression that I am against having a deep relationship with God. The fact is – my whole ministry is devoted to bringing people into a closer and closer walk with Him – a walk of truly deep communion. But there is one very important difference. -And it is all to do with the ‘CHARACTER’ of God, and how we approach Him.
Since I was 17 years old – when I first went through a true “Revival” experience in my life – I have found myself in deep communion with God in prayer. Many times I have found myself (as it were) in the very ‘throneroom’ presence of God, where all I could do was behold His glory and majesty in awe – often with tears streaming down my face. “HOLY HOLY HOLY”. Sometimes I have been unable to speak or utter any word for hours at a time – because what words are sufficent for such things? -This is the God that I came to deeply love. -A ‘HOLY’ God. And I believe that ‘knowing’ God deeply in this way is for every believer. In fact, this is what I spoke about at our recent ‘Gathering’. -’Personal Revival’ and coming into a state of deep communion with Him. I am totally committed to the fact that this is God’s will for every Christian. -Nothing ‘unusual’.
But there are “foundations” that must be laid to come into this. And one of the most important of these foundations is a right understanding of God as a ‘HOLY’ God. -I mean deeply and utterly “Holy”. -Holy beyond words and almost beyond comprehension. The more we get a grasp of God’s HOLINESS, the more we ourselves desire holiness, and the closer and closer to Him we become. I have seen this and I know it is true.
We all know the Scripture- “The FEAR of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom.” But what a lot of us don’t realize is that it is through this reverential ‘Fear’ of the Lord that we ultimately come into a deep ‘LOVE’ relationship with Him. It is utterly crucial that we embrace His judgments and holiness – as well as His mercy and grace. And as this foundation of God’s glory and holiness and majesty is laid in our hearts, our whole approach to Him changes. We start to see Him as He really is – in all His GLORY – and we start to LOVE Him more and more. And as His holiness works its way more and more into our lives, we come closer and closer to Him – not in any “romantic” or ’sensual’ way, but in a ‘HOLY’ way. -This is a major secret of the ‘Revived’ life: Apprehending the ‘HOLY’ character and nature of God. -That is where it starts.
Which is why I have such a problem with the “Jesus as Lover” teaching. -Because it brings God down to “our level” – a sentimental ‘romantic’ level rather than a ‘throneroom’ one. It is an awful distortion. I believe it actually ruins a lot of people’s relationship with God – rather than helping it. In many ways it is a “false Jesus” that is being preached – and the approach is completely wrong.
I know from Scripture and all Revival history that it is the God of GLORY and HOLINESS – the “throneroom” God – that we must get to know if we are to come into the deepest heart communion and intimacy with Him. The ‘Fear’ of the Lord really is the beginning of wisdom.
Through the free gift of the cleansing blood of Jesus – a FREE GIFT – we can truly and deeply become the ‘FRIEND’ of the King of Kings. -Now, how precious is that?? How many billions of dollars could you pay for that?? -We can actually become the ‘FRIEND’ of the God of all glory – Creator of the Universe. This is the God that we can come to deeply know and love. And the key is His ‘HOLINESS’.
TO SUM IT ALL UP:
I am convinced that the “Jesus as Romantic Lover” teaching is more than just an over-emphasis. It is serious error, which is producing bad fruit all over the world.
But more than that, I regard it as an utterly “anti-Revival” doctrine. If you are a seeker of true Revival, then I cannot imagine a worse way to be sidetracked than this. It promises a new kind of “intimacy” with Jesus, yet delivers only cheap ‘romance’. And it fights against true ‘holiness’ preaching (ie. Revival preaching) by bringing God down to a more earthy and soulish and sentimental level. You cannot ever conceive of it preaching “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” At the end of the day, I believe it simply preaches a ‘FALSE JESUS’.
Of course, our culture today is saturated with sex and romance, so this “Romantic Lover Jesus” doctrine plays right along with that. But are we supposed to adapt our whole understanding of God to the sick culture of the day, or are we supposed to represent the TRUE JESUS as He really is – and change the world? Clearly the latter, of course. To change our gospel to make Jesus a “wooing” romantic lover, chasing his beloved and playing “hide & seek” with her, is obviously ‘off’ in a major way. But you can see why many of our youth are falling for it.
Of course, there is another distorted teaching related to this, which is also coming out of that same group in Kansas City. It is the over-emphasis on how much God aches and desires and takes “pleasure” in us – even in our “weakness” and ‘brokenness’ and sinfulness, etc. Again, when this is distorted and over-emphasized to such an extreme, it becomes an “anti-Revival” doctrine of the worst kind. I have been studying Revival now for over 20 years, and I would say that this kind of teaching is just about the worst barrier to true Revival in existence. Instead of exalting God, it portrays Him as excessively ‘emotional’, as He woos and enjoys us with His ‘inflamed’ heart – even in our ‘weakness’ (ie. sin). In other words, the seriousness of sin is down-played and “we” become the center instead of God. Again, this is in direct opposition to all true Revival preaching, and it simply amazes me that any “Revival-seeking” group would come out with it.
Of course, as we have intimated before, this “Bridal” teaching seems to distort or ruin almost everything it touches. ‘FASTING’ is another example. Here is what one person wrote about their encounter with ‘Bridegroom’ fasting: “I have had experience with some ministry that included what they call a “bridegroom fast” where they mourn in “lovesickness” for the purpose of experiencing more of divine Love. Seems to be really over-emphasizing emotional experiences.” – Yes – exactly!
So is such ‘Bridegroom’ fasting actually pleasing to God? Does He even notice it at all? And what about their ‘Bridegroom’ PRAYING? Or their ‘Bridegroom’ MUSIC? (-Of which there seems to be such an abundance!) -Does any of it actually achieve what it is supposed to achieve? Or is it all based on a completely false perception of God?
These are the questions that need to be seriously considered by anyone who is thinking of getting involved in this movement.
An Open Letter to Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets & Other “Apostles”.
I recently received a report of a new “Apostolic Network” headed
up by Dutch Sheets which held a gathering in Florida last week to
“carve up” territories for it’s ‘apostles’, etc. I need to put in writing
what I believe the Lord would say to these men.
But first I need to remind us all of something. On June 23rd, 2008,
a group of “apostles and prophets” under Peter Wagner’s headship
stood on a stage in Lakeland at the Todd Bentley revival – to lay
on hands and commission him, etc. But it was far more than that.
Peter Wagner called it an “apostolic alignment.” He made the
following statement before all the TV cameras and all the people:
“I take the apostolic authority that God has given me and I decree
to Todd Bentley:
-Your power will increase.
-Your authority will increase.
-Your favor will increase.
-Your influence will increase.
-Your revelation will increase.
I also decree that:
-A new supernatural strength will flow through this ministry.
-A new life force will penetrate this move of God…”
Onlookers might have thought that Wagner was ‘prophesying’ the
above statements. But actually what he felt he was doing was
“decreeing” these things over Todd – since he was the ‘head
apostle’. In a letter the following day, Wagner called this a
“groundbreaking event” and stated that, “We are now in a place
in what I see as the Second Apostolic Age…” (In other words,
a “new era” of real apostles).
So how did that work out for you, Peter? Well, literally within
weeks we found out that many of the “miracles” at Lakeland had
no foundation, and then Todd Bentley’s wife separated from him
apparently over an affair he was having – and the entire ‘revival’ fell
to pieces in the worst way possible. That’s how it worked out.
All the big Charismatic leaders that had stood on that stage hardly
knew what to do with themselves – they were so embarrassed.
And none more so than Peter Wagner – after making an “Apostolic
decree” like that. -Probably the most colossal disaster of his life.
So who pulled the rug out from under your “apostolic alignment”,
Peter? I need to tell you that there are two responsible parties.
One is ‘yourself’ – clearly. And the second is GOD – because He
is now pitted against you and your so-called “apostles”. He is the
one who did this to you.
You and your friends have presumed to an office and a place over
the Body that is simply not yours, and God is in the process of
taking you ‘apostles’ down – and all your “networks” with you.
Dutch Sheets – can I ask you please, what gives you the right to
carve up the Body of Christ in North America and parcel it out like
McDonalds franchises to all your buddies so they can be ‘apostles’
over their own “territory”? Do you have any idea what you are
playing with? Don’t you know that if your buddies are not real New
Testament Apostles then all they are doing is painting huge
targets on themselves and begging for the judgment of God?
How dare you treat the Body of Christ like a piece of Real Estate
that you can carve up for your own aggrandizement?
Because of men like you, God is about to judge the leadership
of the church. Do they call themselves an “apostle”? Well, God
is going to put them to the test. If they are not the real thing, they
make themselves His ‘enemy’ because they are blocking His
real Reformation. Every self-proclaimed “apostle and prophet” is
about to be put to the test. Oh, you call your group an “Apostolic
Council of Elders” or something similar? Expect God to come
calling, and if you are not the real thing, expect Him to take you
down. The Lord God is coming to take back His church with great
violence. And you guys are standing directly in His way.
I’ve heard that one of these big “apostles” in Canada once told his
network that their “apostle-ness” would be judged by the ‘noses
and nickels’ that they represented. (In other words, their “numbers”
and their reaping of money). Hmmmm. If I didn’t know better, I
would call those the words of a hireling and a wolf.
As Lee Grady wrote about this ‘Apostle-Mania’:
“In some circles apostles demanded total allegiance from the
leaders who were “under” them. Some required a policy of “tithing
up,” creating a monstrous organizational structure similar to a
spiritual Amway. So-called apostles with huge “downlines” made
exorbitant amounts of money. One leader even offered pastors the
opportunity to become “spiritual sons” by contributing $1,000 a
month to his ministry.”
And yet here is what the TRUE apostle Paul wrote: “I think that
God has set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to
death… we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are
buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace… we are made as the
filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things…” (1 Cor 4:9-13).
Now THAT is true apostleship. Tell me, Mr. Modern Apostle, do
you match up to the New Testament apostles? If not, what on
earth do you think God is going to do to you if you claim that title falsely?
I believe that many true Apostles, when they do arise, will simply
REFUSE to carry such titles in any way. They will “minimize”
themselves, not exalt themselves. That is the heart of a true leader of God.
In closing, let me again warn those who have titled themselves
“apostle” or ‘prophet’ in the modern church. God is coming to
“clean house” and if you are not the real deal, expect Him to start
with you. It is as simple as that. You need to repent urgently of
your utter presumption. You have been warned.YES! – You have permission to post these emails to friends
or other groups, boards, etc – unless there is something
different written in the Copyright notice above.
I just saw the video of Rick Joyner announcing that Todd Bentley is back ministering every night at Morningstar in North Carolinaand now they have so-called “revival” manifestations eerily similar to Lakeland. They also announced that they are streaming these big meetings every night on their new TV channel – and they are greatly promoting the whole thing.
Now I am a tongues-speaking Pentecostal myself – but can I ask a simple question here please? What kind of “spirit” was it operating in the Lakeland revival – when the leader and main focal- point of the meetings (Todd Bentley) was having an adulterous affair behind the scenes? Was it truly the “Holy” Spirit that was anointing something so sensual and unholy? And now that Todd divorced his wife and married his mistress – are we supposed to welcome him back and this “anointing” with him? What is going on here? Rick Joyner has been warned very specifically by high level ministries not to do what he is doing now – bringing Todd Bentley back into the limelight. And yet it seems he does not care. Apparently the “manifestations” are all that matter.
So what exactly are these ‘manifestations’ if they are seemingly at home in such an unholy environment? Are they from God at all? (I am talking here about the violent “jerking”, uncontrollable laughter, bodily contortions, drunkenness, ‘portals’, strange “angel” encounters, etc.) Why do we not see such an ‘anointing’ in the Bible? Why aren’t Jesus or the apostles promoting these manifestations if they really are true Revival? Why instead do we see these things all the way through the New Age and Hinduism, etc? Do we not realize that many false religions have their own version of “laying on of hands” that results in these very types of manifestations? This ’spirit’ is not in the Bible – but it is all the way through Kundalini-type Hinduism! Don’t you think this should alarm us?
WHAT is KUNDALINI?
If you search for Kundalini and Shakti on the Internet, you will find that multitudes of people in the New Age and Eastern religions still experience these powerful manifestations. Often this is with the help of a Guru, who touches them on the forehead so that they can experience a “Kundalini Awakening”.
As researcher Robert Walker wrote in 1995:
“The meetings which mystic Hindu gurus hold are called ‘Darshan’. At these meetings devotees go forward to receive spiritual experience from a touch by the open palm of the hand, often to the forehead, by the guru in what is known as the Shakti Pat or divine touch. The raising of the spiritual experience is called raising Kundalini. After a period when the devotee has reached a certain spiritual elevation they begin to shake, jerk, or hop or squirm uncontrollably, sometimes breaking into uncontrolled animal noises or laughter as they reach an ecstatic high. These manifestations are called ‘Kriyas’. Devotees sometimes roar like lions and show all kinds of physical signs during this period. Often devotees move on to higher states of spiritual consciousness and become inert
physically and appear to slip into an unconsciousness…”
And as the guru Shri Yogãnandji Mahãrãja wrote:
“When Your body begins trembling, hair stands on roots, you laugh or begin to weep without your wishing, your tongue begins to utter deformed sounds, you are filled with fear or see frightening visions. the Kundalini Shakti has become active.”
In China there is a popular Kundalini-type movement called ‘Qigong’. When a Chinese Qigong spiritual master spoke in the USA in 1991, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that many in the crowd began to experience “spontaneous movements”. The master told
his audience, “Those who are sensitive might start having some strong physical sensations – or start laughing or crying. Don’t worry. This is quite normal.”
When you see videos of these “kriyas” or other Kundalini-type manifestations, you would often swear that you are watching a modern “Impartation”-type church meeting. (And I say this as someone who believes strongly in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I just don’t believe in “alien” anointings infiltrating the Body of Christ! There is a big difference between Kundalini and the real Holy Spirit).
Since 1993-4, I believe a foreign spirit has been allowed to invade the church – first through Rodney Howard-Browne’s ministry – then Toronto, then the Prophetic movement (which I was part of at the time) and on into Lakeland and many other ministries and movements. I urge people now to “test the spirits” just as we are commanded to in Scripture. Do not let just anyone lay hands on you. This is a powerful spirit and it has the backing of a lot of big-name ministries. In fact, these men and women are the very ones responsible for allowing it to spread right through the body of Christ. And one day they will be answerable to God for doing so.
We are specifically warned in the Bible that the Last Days will be a time of “seducing spirits,” false prophets, ‘lying signs and wonders,’ and that we always need to watch for “angels of light” masquerading as the real thing. Why does the modern church not take these warnings seriously? Aren’t we living in the very days that the Bible warns about?
Right now I need to do something that I have never done in such a way before. I have never before published a list of ministries or movements to watch out for. But this time I have to. This sickness has gone on long enough. I urge you to cut yourself off from the following ministries and their tainted “anointings” my friends. Even though some of these people say “good things” at times, it is simply not worth having any involvement with them due to the tainted anointing that they endorse or minister in themselves. Here
is the list-
(1) Todd Bentley.
(2) Rodney Howard Browne – the so-called “Holy Ghost Bartender.”
(2) Rick Joyner or anyone connected with Morningstar Ministries.
(3) John Arnott & any connected with TACF (The “Toronto Blessing”).
(4) Peter Wagner of the ‘New Apostolic Reformation’ who claims to be head of a worldwide network of ‘apostles’ – who publicly endorsed Lakeland and will soon preach at Toronto TACF alongside other “false anointing” advocates.
(5) Mike Bickle and IHOP Kansas City (-I lived nearby for over two years – and know how much they are into all this stuff. Mike Bickle promotes it in his book).
(6) Bob Jones – the Kansas City prophet whose ministry is utterly tainted by it all.
(7) Patricia King and anyone else from ‘Extreme Prophetic.’
(8) John Crowder & anyone connected with “Sloshfest.”
(9) Bill Johnson of Bethel church, Redding – who says some good things but publicly endorsed Lakeland and promotes the “false anointing” very strongly behind the scenes.
(10) Heidi & Rolland Baker of IRISMinistries – who do good work amongst the poor in Mozambique – but who have also carried and promoted this tainted anointing for years.
(11) Randy Clark, Wes & Stacey Campbell, and other key figures from the “Toronto blessing.”
(12) The Elijah List – and almost anyone featured on it.
Of course there are a huge number of lesser-known preachers and ministries who carry or endorse this Kundalini-type “anointing” around the world. But I have concentrated here on the most influential that I know of. It really is an enormous issue in the church. I urge anyone who is a supporter of any of the above ministries to really check them out thoroughly. If you find (as I have) that they carry or endorse this false Kundalini spirit in the church, then please stop supporting them in any way – and whatever you do, don’t let them “lay hands” on you!
I am putting everything on the line to be “naming names” like this. But I believe it is that serious. How on earth did we get to the point where “kriyas” just like Hinduism are spreading through the church?
Please forward this email to everyone you know, blogs and boards, etc. These people are trying to “relaunch” this whole thing right now. Help us get this warning out. To see a video showing “kriyas” and other Kundalini-type manifestations, please click on the
Youtube links below-
“D” writes:
I went to Lakeland 3 times. I was so drawn to go there. I really thought it was of God… I had so many supernatural experiences – to seeing a mystical Jesus with a third eye, angels talking to me, visions, being transported. I had one experience with my daughter being in the room and her experiencing it too. I was roaring like a lion, had gold dust and many other experiences. The worst thing that happened to me is that it got sexual. This false Jesus was approaching me sexually and I fell into it. I still to this day do not understand how I could have been so deceived. I have been a Christian since the age of 16. I am 49 now… I fell right in… hook, line and sinker. When I came home that last viist I became aware it was demonic, and I was surrounded and covered with demons literally, it was so horrible, all that I went through, you cannot imagine… I was seeing demons and being touched sexually and tormentingly constantly.. it has been 1 1/2 years and I am still battling these demonic spirits. I cry out to the Lord everyday for total deliverance. It has been horrible. I have renounced and repented, but still fighting. How do we get free of this?
SHERIE writes:
I can testify that I was infested with this foul eastern spirit, the kundalini. I was in a movement from 1992 – 2000 which had close links with the Toronto movement. From 2000 – 2006 I joined a church with links to Bill Johnson.
I was desperate for God to move in my life and change situations and heal hurts and was very open to ministry – I had many in this movement touch my forehead and experienced the manifestations you describe – drunkenness, laughing and crying, shaking. I got dreams and visions and just before I left the structure (church) I had a vivid dream of a huge python that came through the back door and attached itself to my car, and also to rooms in my home. I was very disturbed and sought the Lord for an answer.
It took about 6 months before I was delivered, but God brought a couple over my path who God had trained and had victory over spiritual entities. Every time I was in their presence, I would get very anxious, and they would calmly pray for me and I could feel darkness leaving and my sanity restored. It was only after 6 months of these episodes, I was again in their presence and sensed a fight ensue in the Spirit. I was very anxious and fearful and could feel a huge snake in my spine – I was rigid and very uncomfortable – It
felt as if this thing wanted to throttle me and rob me of my life. I called out to God and they quietly prayed – then I asked the Lady to pull this serpent out of my head – it felt as if it could exit near the top of my crown. She continued to pray and I got the word “kundalini ” in my spirit and just commanded this thing by its name to go in the mighty name of Jesus Christ. I pled the blood as it was very frightening, and it left. I felt like a washed out rag, but I was free!
That was the last lime I had deliverance and my spiritual eyes have since opened and God has done a mighty work in me outside of the structure… Afterwards they were amazed and asked me what strange term I had used and where it came from – I had no idea
except that it was God who gave me knowledge in that situation. Thank you for the info that has made everything clear to me! I Now have confirmation from where I was infected! May many of your readers heed the call of God to “come out and sever yourselves” from Babylon and its lies and deception and foul spirits, while
there is time…
LUCY writes:
David Wilkerson also mentioned the kundalini spirit, and I researched it in late October, after having attended the Fredericks-burg (Virginia) Prayer Furnace at which Che Ahn ministered. There, I saw many of the manifestations you mention: hopping and jumping during “worship”, falling backward at Che Ahn’s touch, extreme jerkiness in several cases. Very uncomfortable with this, I came home and watched (my first time ever) videos of Todd Bentley. Needless to say, I was appalled…
SARAH writes:
I’m just about in tears over all of this…
May and I watched the very first nights of the recent “outpouring of the Holy Spirit” on the IHOP webstream and boy, did that turn sour fast. Aside from the singing on the first night, everything was just messed up. AHH! It’s breaking my heart! How many people
do we know and love in KC?! I’ve watched my beloved siblings laugh uncontrollably, jerk as though sick, stumble and speak as though drunk, and “sing in tongues” in complete chaos and without interpretation. I’ve raised the issue among friends of being “drunk in the Spirit” and even though I prove over and over that God is for self-control, which they agree with, they continue to act like drunken fools! (See Titus 1:8 and 2:2; 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 which compared in the NKJV and NIV relates self-control with being sober, pointing to the fact that the Holy Spirit is not one who takes delight in being drunk at all, but in being sober-minded – fruit of the Spirit, what? Drunkenness
is the complete opposite of being filled with the Holy Spirit! For sober-mindedness is a filling of Him!; 1 Peter 1:13, 4:7, and 5:8 …
BRENDA writes:
A very dear friend of mine who has been my prayer partner for years were lured into the enemy’s web of deception about many of the ministries and manifestations that you spoke about. After reading and listening to your web broadcasts we had a powerful
prayer session repenting, renouncing, and commanding any spirit that we had picked up from these false prophets/doctrines of demons, etc. to go from us in Jesus’ name. We broke all kinds of things off of us. Most of it was deep repentance and renouncing – thank you for exposing the enemy and his tactics and all the deception that the church body has fallen deeply into…
ANDREW STROM: Yes – if you have had “hands laid” or done “soaking prayer” under any of these kinds of ministries, it is very important to RENOUNCE (from the very depths of your being in Jesus’ name) and also COMMAND OUT these ‘kundalini’ spirits
or any other “anointing” that you have received. Remember, you must VIOLENTLY EXPEL these things in the name of JESUS. Be FREE in His mighty name!
I truly wonder what God is going to do to those ministries who have been spreading this alien spirit right through the Body of Christ. Truly, Judgment must begin “at the house of God.”
‘HEBREW ROOTS’ and “YESHUA ONLY” MOVEMENTS -
DANGEROUS??
Below is a very interesting testimony from a lady who was deeply
involved in these movements.
Like me, you have probably come across Christian groups telling
us Gentile Christians that we need to get back to the Torah and
observe the Jewish Sabbath and Feast Days, etc. This is often
called the “Hebrew Roots” movement – and some of it is fine -
simply learning more about Jewish culture and traditions, etc.
But then there is the very real danger of LEGALISM. To me, the
entire thrust of the movement ends up going right against the
New Testament – in fact, right against true Christianity. I think it
can become very dangerous. -The bondage of the Law again.
And then there are the people who claim that we MUST call
Jesus by the name “Yeshua” – even though the apostle Paul
simply called Him by the Greek word ‘Iesous’. They say that
unless we use “Yeshua” we are totally “off”. Well – I believe
the facts completely overturn this theory. I don’t mind people
calling Jesus ‘Yeshua’ if they wish – but to make a “doctrine”
out of it is extreme error in my view. However, it is amazing the
number of people who are being caught up in all this – as though
it were the “great answer” to all our problems! (It’s not).
Below is the testimony of a woman who was deeply involved:
“I wanted to share with you why I feel that the Hebrew Roots
Movement & Sacred Name Movement is just as dangerous as the
The Latter Rain Doctrine. Coming out of both I feel confident in
saying so. I grew up in the Assembly of God church, one that did
not teach Latter Rain/Dominion poison. After my husband and I
were married (he grew up Baptist) we began searching for something
deeper ( I think that is how you get sucked into Latter Rain etc.,
you feel like there just has to be something more, sadly the Word
of God is not enough). We began attending a non-denominational
church which would turn out to be one of many disastrous church
experiences.
This church was heavy Dominionist and were really into the
“shepherding” thing so that they knew everything about everyone
and would use it as a form of control. This was our first experience
with the prophetic movement and we were drawn in by it. After
leaving there because of the control issues (we did not notice the
theology was twisted because we were deceived) we continued
on in the prophetic circles including attending Bill Hamon’s church
when we were able to travel there and reading everything we could
from all the big NAR’s. Well after about 10 years of this running
after new revelation (we had a huge box of tapes with personal
prophecies!) we became really disallusioned with the hypocrisy,
lawlessness and cheap grace attitudes. We decided to leave the
Apostolic/Prophetic church that we were attending. This did not
sit well with the “Apostle”. In these types of churches you do not
leave unless you are “sent out” by the Apostle, which never
happens by the way.
After leaving we were contacted by a couple that had left a few
months before we had. Before visiting with them, I remember really
clearing going to my bookshelf and taking a book off the shelf that
was a study on Galatians, I know now the Lord was trying to warn
me but sadly I put the book back without taking a look at it. Well
we began to meet with this couple and we shared our frustrations
about the lawlessness, etc. that we had left (at the time I did not
know anything about Latter Rain and how it was connected to the
Prophetic/Apostolic movement, it would have explained so much).
They gave us a book by Lew White called Fossilized Customs.
The book has some facts but much twisted truth. We took the bait
though. The whole book is about how the name Jesus is supposedly
pagan along with a lot of other extreme ideas! Thus Sacred Name.
These people believe that you can only use the name Yahweh
when referring to God, the Father and Yeshua (some use Yahushua)
all else is pagan and Satan has deceived all Christians into using
the name Jesus and that Jesus really means Zeus! And this has
been revealed to only the remnant (notice the Gnostic elitism)
which is funny because they pride themselves on staying away
from anything remotely Greek!
Well this began a four year journey with these people. We backed
off a bit of the Sacred name only but began studying many Jewish
writings. You must understand that this was all very gradual and
the leader of this group was very skilled at studying things and
presenting it to us.
Sadly to say we drifted more and more from the New Testament,
the new covenant and the cross of Christ. That is the danger of the
Hebrew Roots movement. You want so desperately to return to the
Word of God but in the end it takes you away from it in it’s entirety.
The leader began planting seeds such as” the New Testament was
not totally flawless since it had been written in Greek there were
many different texts and some may not be accurate”. He began to
pick and choose and before we ended up leaving he had pretty
much thrown out Galatians and John because it did not reconcile
to his theology! He taught that the Virgin birth was just a doctored
up Catholic version of the Word. He taught that Jesus was Joseph
and Mary’s natural born son even though he could not prove this
scripturely. That is why he brought into question the accuracy of
the translations.
You are probably saying “how could you stay?” All I can say is
that deception does not happen over night it is gradual, we became
emotionally tied to these people and looked to them as a mother
and father (I think that is why many stay in abusive churches).
We participated in the feasts of the Bible and of course we observed
Sabbath religiously every Saturday (what got me is that instead of
us resting we had to go to the leader’s home early that morning to
hear hours of his twisted teaching!). He began to teach that we
became righteous through the law and that was why Yeshua came
to show us how to keep the law. He actually began to teach that
we needed to keep as much of the Law of Moses that we could
and it was lawlessness not to do so. In essence you basically had
to convert to Judaism even though we literally did not.
We started to get a clue about a year before we actually cut all
ties and we started to question him about some of the laws in the
Old Covenant and how we were uncomfortable with some about
slavery for instance, of course he came up with some justification
about it. Around this time he began making references to having
more than one wife. My husband and I were really uncomfortable
with these continuous comments and so one day we confronted
him (his wife was not present and by the way it was obvious this
journey was taking it’s toll on her as well by this time.) He told us
he was one of those that could love more than one woman! (There
is double standard because it is unthinkable for a woman to have
more than one husband in their eyes!). We told him “what about
the words of Jesus (in the beginning God made male and female,
etc.) but what was obvious to us was not to him. If it wasn’t in
“Torah” then it didn’t count!
Well that was it, I cried all weekend and we just began to think
about everything and the path that we had been on and how far we
had strayed from the gospel and it was heartbreaking! I take full
responsibility for allowing myself to be deceived but I must say
that man really messed with my mind! He was skilled in twisting
scripture and to this day I still struggle with some things. I almost
lost my faith in God because of my involvement with these people.
My husband came through a little easier than myself.
I have to say there are many sects within the Hebrew Roots
movement and not all believe what I have shared. But the core
belief is that the church has strayed from it’s Hebrew roots and
that God is restoring this revelation (the same theme of the Latter
Rain) but only to a select few and the rest of the church is pagan.
Because of this belief you begin to cut yourself off from the Body
of Christ and before you know it you are isolated. You are no longer
the salt of the world. You do not witness or share the gospel
anymore because you don’t believe the gospel anymore!
The very thing that you think is bringing you closer to God (returning
to His word) takes you further away because it is a twisted
perception of the Word of God. My heart goes out to anyone caught
up in this deception because it leaves you so confused. I praise
God that he opened our eyes to this and for His grace and mercy
and for the blood of Jesus which is our true Redeemer!”
FIVE KEYS to SURVIVING the CRISIS
-by Andrew Strom.
Since I believe (like others) that 2009 is going to be a year that
“All hell breaks loose” (-Yes – you can quote me on that), I believe
it is very important that God’s people come to grips with the key
things that will help us survive – and even thrive – through this dark
period of great Shaking. The following keys are taken from my
book, “SURVIVE the DEPRESSION”-
(1) SPIRITUAL PREPARATION. As has been intimated all the way
through the book, the most important keys to surviving and thriving
in this present crisis are ‘SPIRITUAL’ in nature. The root causes of
this mess are things like greed, apathy and the “Love of money” –
which are all SPIRITUAL diseases. And thus the answers are
mostly spiritual also. Those who merely prepare in physical or
practical ways will find this out to their great cost. If you want to
survive and thrive, prepare yourself “spiritually” above all else.
Spend time seeking God, get rid of all sin, obey Him implicitly,
help the poor, leave behind the shallow “junk” of our culture and
become a radical disciple of Jesus. If you have a family to care for,
put the same principles into practice. Become a RADICAL
FAMILY for Christ! Don’t delay. We are out of time. Such “spiritual”
preparations are by far the most important answer to surviving and
thriving in these dark times. But don’t just selfishly seek God so
you can “survive”. Seek Him for His own sake. Become a true
disciple who lives for Christ – not for what you can “get out of it” –
but because your deepest desire is to utterly glorify Him.
(2) POSITION YOURSELF. Sometimes Christians can get away
with being in the wrong place for quite some time. But not in a
crisis like this. Every Christian needs to ask themselves right now,
“Am I exactly where I am meant to be? Am I am with the people
that God wants me with? Am I in the right group, the right city?” If
you know that God has been whispering to you for quite some
time that you are meant to be in a different place, then do not
delay. Get yourself and your family into the place that you know is
in the very center of His will – even if it means losing money, or
leaving behind friends, a well-paid job, or whatever. This is no time
to be caught anywhere but in the exact center of God’s will for
your life. Pray about it and take action. Don’t put it off!
(3) FOOD STORAGE. This can be a difficult thing to talk about
today because there have been so many “false alarms” such as
Y2K, etc. However, there have been a number of prophecies about
food shortages and famine in the days ahead – even in developed
nations like America. I certainly believe this is possible. In fact, we
are already beginning to see disruptions of international shipping
and trade caused by the Credit Crunch. Even basic grains and
foodstuffs may be affected – which could have terrible
consequences for the Food Supply in the months and years ahead.
So if God has been whispering to you to start a garden or to
collect canned goods, then you need to heed that “still small voice”
and begin to prepare in this way. Again, if this is something you
feel God has been warning you about, PLEASE DO NOT DELAY –
but act quickly to get yourself positioned for what lies ahead. It is
relatively painless to gather canned goods – and they can always
be used whether there is a crisis or not. And gardens likewise.
(4) SMALL GROUPS HELPING THE POOR. So far the pointers
we have been discussing fall into the category of “Surviving”. But
this one comes under the category of “Thriving”. If you want to
thrive in this crisis, get involved in ministering to the poor and
needy. (Sadly there will be a lot more of them as time goes on).
When I was down in Mississippi after Hurricane Katrina there was
one Spirit-filled Fellowship that was “thriving” in the midst of the
chaos. They had filled their sanctuary with food, clothes, and
emergency supplies of all kinds – and they were ministering to
hundreds. They also prayed with many of those they helped. In the
midst of that crisis, when many churches had closed down and
many pastors had left town, this Fellowship was thriving and
becoming a Help and Ministry center for the entire community.
They were a light in the darkness – a “city set upon a hill” -
ministering to many who ordinarily never go near a church. And if
you look in Scripture you will see that this is exactly what the
early Christians were like. Helping the poor was a big priority with
them also.
In the first chapter of the book I mentioned how important it is to
band together with perhaps 2 – 3 other families that we can link
arms with when times get really tough. (We may even end up
LIVING with some of these people. Do you have friends who are
that close?) And in conjunction with this I urged people to use
these small groups to begin to minister to the poor. I cannot tell
you how important this is, if we want to “thrive” – not just ‘survive’ -
through this current crisis. This is one of the absolute keys. In fact
it is very doubtful if we can even have real New Testament
Christianity without a strong emphasis on the poor and needy. It is
that crucial. So will you be a “light shining in the darkness” during
this present crisis, my friends?
(5) LISTEN FOR THE “STILL SMALL VOICE”. We already put
“Spiritual Preparation” at the top of our List of priorities, but I just
need to re-emphasize this aspect. To survive this crisis, we simply
MUST be walking close to God and listening to His voice. We
have to hear from Him. And we have to be ready to respond – even
if it means “leaving all”. This is utterly crucial, and for many people
may literally be the difference between life and death. Learn to
listen to God’s voice and obey Him. Wherever he wants to send
you, whatever He wants you to do – do it. And I pray that not only
will you be one who “survives” this crisis, but one who ‘thrives’ – to
the glory of God the Father. May the Lord be with every one of you
in these dark days, my friends.
-Please comment on this article at the following website-
NOTE from Mario Liu: On 16 October 2008 I was in a prayer meeting with Robert Holmes, and Kurt Pfanstiel, who was visiting us from the USA. Robert shared with us a vision he has recently received. Robert had a vision of Alexander the Great standing victorious in the middle of USA.
We discussed about Robert’s vision in some details. Alexander the Great in the vision was a foreign looking man. He was surrounded by many US citizens, who seemed to welcome Alexander as their leader. I asked Robert whether there were any signs of violence and Robert said no.
I remembered God has given similar visions before about Alexander the Great conquering USA and we did not understand God’s meaning then. Now that God repeated this vision, I felt that there is significance in this and asked God for more revelations, such as which country is conquering USA, who is Alexander etc. But God did not give us any clear revelations apart from saying that “Alexander took Babylon without bloodshed.”
After the US election, Robert recognized that the Alexander he saw was Obama. Then God revealed more information. These revelations are enclosed below… We need to pray.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THE END of EMPIRE AMERICA
-by Robert I Holmes.
This article will cover a range of issues which have been brewing for six to twelve months in my heart. History will judge America as an empire. That empire is coming to an end. The election of Barak Obama is a significant prophetic event, marking the sunset of that empire, and the rising of other powers in the earth who represent ancient powers and civilisations. These ideas have consequences for believers living both in the US and the countries who rely on her (like Australia). But to address those things, I need to go back eight years.
Standing in Upstate New York in 2000, I had a conversation with the Lord which I shall never forget. The Lord asked me “How long does an empire last?” to which I asked, “Am I standing in an empire?” [it did not occur to me that I was standing in the Empire State!] Rather than answering me directly, He said, “All empires come to an end”. I pondered this for a moment. What empire? Was this country coming to an end? Then He asked a third question: “How do people position themselves as an empire nears its eventual end?” The implications of his line of thought were clear. America had become an empire, had influenced the world, but was now nearing the end of her reign as a sovereign super power. God wanted his people to know, their day in the sun is ending; the sunset is coming. He wanted them to make preparations and adjustments.
What is an Empire?
The concept of an American Empire was first popularized in the aftermath of the Spanish-American War of 1898 (during which it took control of the Philippines and other Pacific island nations). America rates as an empire not only because of her global
sovereignty but because of her super power status.
She is actually the world’s first “hyper power”. Hubert Vedrine, the French Foreign Minister stated in July 2003 that, “The United States of America today predominates on the economic, monetary, technological and in the cultural arena in terms of power and influence it is not comparable to anything known in modern history – in short the US is a hyper puissance [hyper power]“. (1)
Alexander Cometh!
In 1999, as I prepared to travel to the US on ministry, the Lord gave me a very unusual prophetic word. He said that, “In the days of Babylon, when her walls stood wide and her leaders stood tall, her defences were strong and her campaigns victorious, Alexander the Great came and defeated her. In the same way, my Alexander will stand in the very midst of the United States of America”.
The phrase “in the same way” indicates that America’s walls are wide, her leaders stand tall, her defences are strong, her campaigns until now have been victorious. But a man like Alexander – someone God refers to as “my Alexander” will stand in her midst, victorious and defeat her. Alexander the Great, a Mediterranean Greek, defeated Darius the Mede in 331BC at the Battle of Gaugamela, and the gates of Babylon swung open to him (when he was just 25 years old). He stood in the midst of the courtyard declaring himself king. He then spent considerable time and effort trying to restore Babylon to its former glory.
As I prayed in preparation for going to the US two weeks ago on ministry again, I had a vision of a map of America from high above. There, almost in the centre of it was a marketplace. I zoomed down toward the marketplace, and saw a man standing there. I recognized by the Spirit that it was Alexander the Great, standing in a dusty, sandstone area, sword lifted high, victorious.
I believe that God’s “Alexander” is Barak Obama. He has now stood in the middle of America, and declared his victory speech in Grant Park in Chicago. There, he prophetically declared, “Change has come to America,” (6). Yes indeed, it has. Barak, apart from having the appearance of a Middle Eastern or African man, is also very young and inexperienced. Barak Obama has not even had a full year in his senate position. I do not question the right of a 47 year old to rule a nation, but his inexperience is not reduced by his amazing oratory skill. “Your sons will take the place of your fathers; you will make them princes throughout [in all] the earth,” (Psalm 45:16 NIV).
He represents the end of empire America as we know it, and the opening of a new regime, one which, like Alexander, represents a conflagration of old powers: European, Middle Eastern and Asian. He will try to restore America’s glory, but in doing so relegate her to second position on the global scene.
Chinese communist armies may well stand ready to invade the US, but she is extremely well guarded. Muslim extremists are surely planning further self-destructive attacks on US soil, but she is well prepared. It is certain that European economies seek to outflank the US, but given the present economic collapse, their hopes fall with the US.
There remains one great enemy the US has no protection against at all: themselves. It is to ourselves we must look. The society we have created, the environment we have destroyed, the economy we have overtaxed, the people we have abandoned, the poor we have ignored, the sin we have run toward, the morals we have abandoned. These things must change.
- Arrogance and greed are their own poison.
- Pride brings its own inevitable fall.
- Moral corruption is its own debilitating cancer.
America Is In the Cycle
In a substantial review of empires, Salem Kirban concluded that “world dominating civilizations progress through the following fairly well defined sequence of stages” (7):
- Bondage;
- Spiritual faith/ revival;
- Courage/ war;
- Liberty for the people;
- Prosperity/ abundance/ wealth;
- Complacency/ apathy;
- Dependency/ debt;
- Moral corruption/ addiction;
- Bondage.
It does not take an historian or a scholar to see that America has traversed her way through this very cycle of life, and finds herself in the dependency/debt and moral corruption/ addiction stages. National debt stands at 10,639,613,228,421 today (that’s ten point six trillion and rising). It is the most indebted nation on earth. Debt stands at 70% of GDP. And to whom is that money owed? The US government itself owns about 43% of it. The next largest holder is the US Federal Reserve, and after that: Japan, China, Britain and Oil countries of the Middle East (who together hold 29%, which is
more than private sector Americans). About 66% of the debt owned by foreign nations is held by banks of other countries, in particular the central banks of Japan and China. (8)
Recall the prophetic words about the end of an empire, preparing for the days to come, and the appearance of an Alexander figure - the era of America’s dominance is closing. Barak will oversee the increase of influence of foreign powers in the US: the power of ancient nations and forces. Specifically: European, Middle Eastern and Asian. The everyday mortgages of middle income Americans are owned by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, which in turn are heavily indebted to Japan, China and Middle Eastern oil states.
This situation will only get more and more entwined. America stands a very real exposure to risk should foreign banks stop buying Treasury securities or start selling them heavily.
This risk was addressed in a recent report issued by the Bank of International Settlements which stated, “Foreign investors in U.S. dollar assets have seen big losses measured in dollars, and still bigger ones measured in their own currency. While unlikely, a sudden rush for the exits cannot be ruled out completely.” (9). One economic analyst, Nouriel Roubini keenly observes, “The US has squandered its uni-polar moment, the decline of the American Empire – as the US was a global empire – has started… We are indeed slowly moving towards a multi-polar world where there will be a balance of Great Powers rather than the hegemony of a single hyperpower.” (10)
Change of Government, But No Change of Heart
There will be a change of president in the White House in January, 2009. The US president is moving from Republican to Democrat, but that does nothing to change the heart of the nation. The rise of a Black leader does nothing to address the moral malady she is in. Obama is not the nation’s savior. The nation is already deep in the throes of a national depression which will last between 2-10 years, it is the most indebted nation in history, and no man can rescue such a situation.
If Kirban is right, and if this word is true, the nation will bring herself undone. She will decay, and implode – and then bondage must come. As Irish philosopher Edmund Burke once said, “Society cannot exist unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere, and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters,” (11). Our passions must necessarily forge external fetters to govern us. Famine, strife, martial law, war, invasion and poverty ensue.
God calls Barak Obama “my Alexander”. His standing in the midst of America, victorious, was a prophetic announcement that change indeed has come to America. The American Empire is coming to an end. There is a global shift from a single super power to the rise of other powers in the earth. These ideas have consequences for believers living both in the US and the countries who rely on her. Our world is getting set to change!
Now God asks, “How will you position yourself as the empire
nears its eventual end?”
ORIGINAL ARTICLE – “WHY I LEFT THE PROPHETIC MOVEMENT”
- by Andrew Strom (-Nov 3, 2004).
A report on the Kansas City ‘Whitedove’ Conference, Oct 28-30, 2004. (-Main speakers: Bob Jones, Paul Keith Davis, Bobby Conner, John Paul Jackson, Shawn Bolz – plus Jim Goll and others).
It is with great sadness that I make the following report.
I said last week that the ‘Whitedove’ conference in Kansas City this past weekend would be a pivotal one. It certainly was pivotal for me personally. I wish I could say that there was deep repentance – that the preaching was incredibly anointed and the crowd were on their faces crying before God. I wish I could say that, but I can’t. In fact, it seemed to me that the opposite was true. The saddest thing of all is that many people probably came away from this conference saying how “wonderful” and “uplifting” it was (-just as they always do). But I have to tell you, I was grieved to the core by it. Many parts of it I would even describe as spiritually “sick”.
Some people believe that the fall of Paul Cain into serious sin is some kind of aberration – just one individual’s problem. But I am convinced that the fall of Paul Cain (-who was recognised worldwide as the ‘father’ of this movement) is a symptom of a much wider disease. The whole movement is sick. As I have stated in previous articles, the ‘Prophetic’ as we know it is really a “fallen” movement – since the early 1990’s. But I always held out hope that it would somehow turn around and get back on track again. In fact, I believed that this conference was a heaven-sent opportunity for that to happen.
However, after what I saw this weekend, I no longer believe this is possible. The deception is now too deep. This movement is being “given over to believe a lie” and I want no part of it. I am cutting myself off, because I cannot afford the disease to spread into what we ourselves are doing. Things have now gotten so bad that we have to separate ourselves – and to do so publicly.
As you know, I requested special prayer from you all last week that a true spirit of Repentance might prevail in this conference. The reason I made this request was because God had woken me up at 6 am the previous Friday and given me a strong word about the conference. (God only wakes me up like this quite rarely – perhaps five times a year).
The word He gave me was that this must be a ‘repentance’ conference – that this was in essence the “last chance” for the Prophetic movement because it had become more and more corrupt – centered around money and ‘ear-tickling’ words, false prophecy and so-on. This was a gathering of KEY prophets at a moment in time when the ‘father’ of the movement had just fallen. It was God’s ideal moment for a truly “solemn assembly”. (And yes – I did write and pass this word on – in person – to the three main leaders of the conference).
However, what actually eventuated at this event seemed to me to be more akin to a circus than a solemn assembly. The music, the concert-style lighting, the stage dancers, the groaning tables stacked high with books and CD’s for sale, the ‘ear-tickling’, the hype, the $40.00 door fee (plus extra offerings taken each session) – and that’s just for starters.
What really bothered me about the weekend was the total lack of any truly ‘prophetic’ preaching. There was some good stuff on Self-pity and Bitterness right near the start, but after that it was mostly downhill. As always, there were plenty of anecdotes and tales of angelic visitations, etc. There were Scriptures quoted and a few helpful insights. But as far as a message that truly pierces and challenges and convicts – well, don’t go looking for that in THIS prophetic movement! In fact, there were warnings AGAINST any message that might come across as even slightly “condemning”, and there was even one of those cute talks on the need for “loving oneself”, etc.
Today’s prophets seem to talk a lot ABOUT the ’sword of the Lord’ but never actually bring it to bear. They bring no piercing word. And thus the entire movement is open to great deception. And instead of REPENTANCE, people are getting all kinds of counterfeit spiritual experiences. There seems to be almost no discernment at all.
The ON-STAGE DANCING throughout this conference was a good example. Now, I myself am a rock musician, but from the beginning these dance items had a rather ‘wild’ aspect to them that truly made me uncomfortable in my spirit. There was even one that came across like a sensual ‘Harem’ dance. Much of it really felt “off” – and almost anyone who sees the videos will tell you so. Even the worship had a very “tribal” feel to it at times. And by Day Three they were doing dance items with just loud voodoo-style drums only – and leaping around in a frenzied circle making weird cries to the super-amplified beat. The feeling in the room was so oppressive and “pagan” during this, that I could hardly even bear to stay in there. Then came one of the most shocking statements of the whole conference – from one of the main prophets. He got up and said that people may feel uncomfortable with such obviously “pagan” type dancing, but that it was originally God’s type of dancing and we were just now ’stealing back’ what the pagans had stolen from God!
I have to admit, this was the last straw for me. What could be more blatant? What kind of ’spirits’ do they think are being transmitted to people who open themselves up to that music? There is no discernment in this movement at all.
Now, I do not primarily blame the dancers. They were young and possibly immature. (-They weren’t actually from ‘Whitedove’ itself). Clearly, most of the blame lies with the main prophets who invited them in and openly endorsed and promoted what was happening the whole time. They would get up and publicly acclaim these dance items, thus ensuring that the spirit of it would pervade the entire event. And indeed it did – more and more.
Remember, most of the major “movers and shakers” of the Prophetic movement were at this conference, going along with this stuff. I repeat what I said earlier: This movement demonstrates absolutely NO DISCERNMENT. I urge everyone to GET OUT NOW, before even worse is brought in. I believe this movement is RIGHT NOW being given over to deception by God – and it is going to get much worse.
Even the ’spiritual’ moments in this conference often had strong touches of “Charis-mania” excess about them. And this was not the ‘harmless, silly’ kind of excess, either. It was at a level where I believe demonic spirits of deception were clearly at work. By the last session the audience was so hyped that they threw away all inhibition and leapt into the ‘pagan’ dancing themselves with wild abandon. And one of the main prophets even got up and announced that there were angels in the room going around “blowing on peoples’ fingers” if only they would lift them up in the air. That particular part sounds silly, but actually the whole thing by this stage had become awful beyond words. Virtually every day I came home utterly grieved and depressed. I had come to this conference with great expectancy and hope, thinking that the return of Bob Jones may bring a renewal of all that was originally good about this movement. I literally came as a ‘friend’ and they turned me into an enemy in the space of three days.
Below are the SPECIFIC THINGS that God told me He has against this movement as a whole:
-The giving and receiving of “ear-tickling” words.
-The giving and receiving of money in expectation of prophecy.
-False words and false teaching.
-The lack of a true Repentance message.
-The spiritual ‘blindness’ that allows familiar spirits and spirits of divination to flourish.
-The failure of this movement to judge itself, meaning that God must judge it.
-The idolising of well-known prophets – placing them on a pedestal.
-And so on….
WHAT NOW FOR US?
Well, obviously, with great sadness we must now totally cut ourselves off from today’s Prophetic Movement. Any related links and articles will be removed from our web-site immediately.
As you know, for some time now I have spoken of the ‘John-the- Baptist’ type ministries that must arise to preach REPENTANCE in the Western nations. -Preachers of righteousness with a piercing word, like the Finneys, the Wesleys and the Whitefields of old. Such ministries are essential for true Revival to come. I now see that this new move must completely “separate itself” from the influence of the existing Prophetic movement. We need a completely ‘NEW’ Prophetic, and to keep it from being tainted by the sickness that has infected the old, there must be a complete cutting-off and a “leaving behind”.
I urge all of you to take this before the Lord for yourself. We live in very dangerous times, and I believe the old Prophetic literally stands under the judgement of God.
For our ministry in Kansas City, what this means is that we have to go right back to the original calling and mandate over this city, and build on that. We cannot build on the movement that came after. The 21 days of prayer and fasting, the comet that came, and the comission to preach Repentance to the Lukewarm church – these were all foundational elements. So too were the four standards of “Holiness of heart, Unwavering faith, Day and Night prayer, and Extravagant Giving to the Poor”. The original Prophetic move here seemed to be relatively pure for only a few years – and then quickly became a quagmire. So we have to stick to only the original foundations – and build on that. Our Sunday night meetings in Kansas City will certainly continue.
There were prophecies last year that a ‘new’ prophetic – a “second phase” was about to begin. I do believe this. But what we need to make sure of is that it does not become ensnared in the garbage of this previous movement. It must be totally NEW.
I would ask that you forward this announcement to as many Lists as you can, and to your Christian friends. We want it as widely known as possible that we have cut off all relations with the current Prophetic movement – and why we did it.
To email me with any feedback, please write to: prophetic@revivalschool.comAs you can tell, it has been a terribly sad and devastating weekend for myself and my family. We would truly appreciate your prayers at this time, my friends.God bless you all.Kindest regards in Christ,
Andrew Strom.
PART #2 – WHY I LEFT THE PROPHETIC MOVEMENT
-by Andrew Strom.
I guess you will not be surprised to hear that I was flooded with 600 emails within 24 hours of my announcement that I was leaving the Prophetic movement. Many of them seemed to be highly supportive of the stand I had taken. (-A lot of people have seen alarming things in this movement). But I’m sure I will receive a lot of flak also.
For many years, even when I was truly disturbed by something I usually avoided “naming names” as much as possible. I do not approve of the ‘Heresy Hunters’ who seem to take such delight in maligning Spirit-filled ministries across the Internet. There is no delight in such things for me. Only grief and sadness that the name of Jesus is once again being brought down into the mud. We live in very sad times in the church today, don’t we?
After my previous article, many people asked me again to “name names” and announce clearly who the leaders were at this conference – even though that info was already at the top of my first email. For this one time, I am actually going to accede to their request – because we need to clear the air about these leaders and also a number of others as well. But I have to tell you, I have been totally heart-sick at having to talk about all this.
The speakers at this KC ‘Whitedove’ Conference were Bob Jones, Paul Keith Davis, Bobby Conner, John Paul Jackson, Shawn Bolz – plus Jim Goll and one or two others. Sadly, I have to say that I have rarely felt so grieved or devastated as when I witnessed the carryings-on at this event. If you get the ‘Elijah’ List (-the main Prophetic email List) you will recognize most of the names above as being amongst the top “movers and shakers” of the whole movement.
A number of people asked me about Rick Joyner and Morningstar Ministries. Where do they fit into all this? Well, seemingly Rick has always managed to keep himself at a slight distance from the worst excesses and controversies of this movement. (-Except for when he joined the Knights of Malta – an ancient Catholic Order. -By the way, that is probably what led to the fad of using swords to ‘knight’ people that swept through this movement a few years ago). I have read some of Joyner’s books and enjoy some of the things he says, but frankly, just because he has kept himself at a slight distance does not absolve him from the mess that the Prophetic is in today. The fact is, Mr Joyner is very close friends with almost all of the main leaders at this recent conference. He regularly ministers alongside them – and knows them very well. As a ‘father’ in the movement, if he had brought correction it would have been heeded, but he has clearly failed to do so. Thus, he has to be held accountable for the state of things as much as anyone else. And it would not surprise me if similar deception is finding it’s way into Morningstar conferences. (-A number of the same people are involved). Sadly then, I have had to remove any articles or links to Rick Joyner from my web-site – along with all the others.
And speaking of the sad and grievous state of this movement, I wonder how many of you received the following notice from the Elijah List recently about a forthcoming ‘School of the Prophets’: “God is releasing a new level of revelation that goes beyond just operating in the nine gifts of the Spirit…. Sessions will cover topics like Hearing the Voice of God, Activating your Spiritual Senses, Third Heaven Experiences, and Exploring Spirit Realms.” The advertised speakers are Todd Bentley, Stacey Campbell, Larry Randolph, Paul Keith Davis, and Bobby Conner.
Now, I have come across Todd Bentley’s teachings on “How to visit the Third Heaven” before, and I tell you, it is nothing less than ‘Guided Visualization’ taken straight out of the New Age movement. Nothing less and nothing more. It is exactly the same. And I want you to know that if you attend these kinds of things, or allow these men to ‘guide’ you or lay hands upon you, then you are opening yourself up to all kinds of spirits and demonic counterfeits. As I have stated before, this movement has absolutely NO DISCERNMENT at all. It has sunk into such deception that it’s leaders are opening people up to all kinds of demonic experiences on a daily basis. It has no idea that it is even doing it. -It behaves exactly like a movement that has been “given over to deception” by God. I urge again that everyone reading this would prayerfully consider CUTTING OFF all ties to this movement, lest you yourself become tainted by it.
It is with great sadness that I make the above points. I have refrained from saying such things in the past, but I can no longer do so, because untold people are being spiritually damaged by what is going on. Please understand my heart in this.
For the same reason I also need to warn you about another ‘prophetess’ who is often featured on the Elijah List. Her name is Jill Austin and I have personally witnessed her ministry in action. I would describe it as one of the most disturbing (by far) meetings that I have ever been in. There was definitely a strange “power” operating, but it certainly did not seem like God to me. She is also an expert at ‘hyping’ an audience. Please be very careful in such environments, my friends. -You can end up taking part in things that you would never normally do, just because you are part of a large crowd.
Sadly, there seem to be many other ministries in this movement involved in similar deception. In fact, I hate to say it, but a general rule might be that if someone is featured on the Elijah List, there has to be at least an 80% chance that their ministry is “off” in some major way. I will say just one more thing about the Elijah List: I am convinced that they will one day give account to God for taking upon themselves the name “Elijah” and then doing what they have done with it. Literally, by their own words they will be judged.
HOW TO AVOID DECEPTION
What a lot of people don’t seem to recognize is the sheer level of ‘peer pressure’ and “crowd manipulation” that is going on at many of these events. They end up being led into doing things they feel uncomfortable with, just because “everybody else” is doing it. They squash down their discernment. They ignore the “little voice” or the tiny ‘alarm bells’ inside them that are trying to get their attention. And thus, multitudes of Christians are being led astray – and paying through the nose for the privilege. I urge anyone reading this who has ever squashed down their discernment and participated in such things, to get before God and REPENT of opening yourself up in that way. It is very important that you confess this before God and ask His forgiveness. RENOUNCE all deception in Jesus’ name.
One thing we don’t have much time to discuss here is the MONEY issue. This is a huge problem in the Prophetic. Now, I do understand that ministries need finances to operate. I run a ministry myself. And as most of you know, about 5 times a year we put out a book or CD (available for any donation – or even just postage) to go towards the costs of keeping this ministry operating. However, the word itself is always free. It is terribly sad to see the charging of ‘entry fees’ to hear the word today, and the over-bearing emphasis on MONEY in the church. Did not Jesus clearly command: “Freely you have received, freely give”?
REDEFINING “PROPHET”
Just because I have cut myself off from today’s Prophetic movement does not mean that I believe there is no place for prophets in the church. In fact, I believe we need true prophets now more than ever. But you will notice that there has been a subtle shift in the use of the term “prophet” over the last 25 years, and I believe we need to get back to the original meaning. It was not long ago that when you spoke of a ‘prophet’ you were usually referring to someone like Keith Green, Leonard Ravenhill or David Wilkerson – someone who was crying out to the lukewarm church, “REPENT.” And if you look down the annals of history, you will find that there has never been a true Prophetic movement that did not have this as it’s core message. Every true Prophetic movement, right from the Old Testament down through every Revival and Awakening that I have ever studied, has been a movement of REPENTANCE. And yet we find today a movement that calls itself “Prophetic” – but with spiritual ‘revelations’ and words of knowledge at its core. -No piercing word. This is the precise reason why it has gone off the rails. -It has abandoned it’s age-old message. It’s ‘word’ has been corrupted.
I am convinced that God IS going to raise up true prophets in this hour to cry to the lukewarm church “Repent”. There is a movement coming that is utterly different from that which we have seen. God is coming to clean house. The “shaking” has already begun. And the “John-the-Baptists” whom God has prepared in the caves and wildernesses are about to arise and speak His word – just as in every Great Awakening down through history.
Some people asked me if I was going to shut down our web-sites and email Lists. Not at all. The whole point of what we’re doing is to call forth and encourage these “John-the-Baptists” whom God is raising up in this hour. We will not stop crying aloud until we see a great ‘Repentance’ Revival sweeping this nation from coast to coast.
As A.W. Tozer wrote of all true prophets down the ages: “God has always had His specialists whose chief concern has been the moral breakdown, the decline in the spiritual health of the nation or the church. Such men were Elijah, Jeremiah, Malachi and others of their kind who appeared at critical moments in history to reprove, rebuke and exhort in the name of God and righteousness… Such a man was likely to be drastic, radical, possibly at times violent, and the curious crowd that gathered to watch him work soon branded him as extreme, fanatical, negative. And in a sense they were right. He was single-minded, severe, fearless, and these were the qualities the circumstances demanded. He shocked some, frightened others and alienated not a few, but he knew who had called him and what he was sent to do. His ministry was geared to the emergency, and that fact marked him out as different, a man apart.”
(1) Geri McGhee writes:
I received the following email from a child of God who has been victimized by “soaking” in what she was told was the Holy Spirit. Perhaps, there are others of you who are being tormented after an experience with what you thought was the Holy Spirit; when in reality, you were taken captive by a demonic spirit(s)…“Dear Geri: I remember going to some meetings where they believed in all of this that you have mentioned in your message on “soaking”. I have experienced the shaking, tingling, electrical sensation going through my body, along with various other things that they said was the Holy Spirt, not realizing that it is the Kundalini spirit… Have you ever delivered anyone from this horrible spirit and is it hard?I have the cold sensations over my head, tingling, electrical sensations going through my body, I can feel a serpent like movement all over my back, I have this shaking when I pray, I feel movement over my head, genitals, legs, etc, the list goes on and on.You may share my testimony because I have struggled with this for many years and no one has been able to help me. I have done some research on this spirit, and what I have found is the very same thing that you have told me. I just recently visited a church where they brought back the impartation of TODD BENTLEY and passed it on to some people including me, not knowing what I was getting into. All of these manifestations are present at his services as well. I can feel it in my chest, on my back and it is a horrible crawling serpent sensation…”
(2) “I WAS DELIVERED” – ‘Revival-Fire’I have a recent testimony of deliverance that may be helpful to some people.
In 2003 I ended up in a Toronto Blessing type meeting, I was a youthworker for a Christian organization at the time. I had some spiritual experiences during this season at the Toronto type church. Something was transferred to me during this time. How do I know?During this season God had begun to work in the lives of the young people I had been ministering to… After my Toronto meetings, when I now shared at the youth groups spiritual phenomena began to take place. Laughter broke out, some felt drunk, others would feel like slumping on the floor when I prayed. At the time I didn’t understand it, some of it concerned me, but I didn’t want to quench it if it was God. One thing that did concern me was that one of the young people who got ‘drunkenness’ for a couple of days, wasn’t even saved.
Anyway, I’ve always had a love for the word of God, good doctrine and truth. Some of the things in the Toronto stuff never sat right with me. I did think there where some new age influences. I did relax on the manifestations though and I have laughed, shook, jerked and ‘whoooooaaaaahhhhhed’ with the best of them. Since that point I was a defender of ‘Toronto’.
When Lakeland kicked off I was hopeful, however having graduated from theological college, I was now more ’skeptical’ about healing ministries. Don’t get me wrong. I believe in healing, however mass hype and hysteria and unsubstantiated claims caused me to be wary. I began to research Lakeland, Bentley, etc… As I read the articles, etc, I began to become more and more convinced that I had allowed myself to come under a false spiritual environment.
Having had hands laid on me by many Toronto people I began to wonder about impartation and what I had received. One day while out in the town some American Indians where doing some of their Native Music on the streets. I stopped to listen and as I listened I began to feel movement in my gut. The movement I felt was very similar to what I would feel during times of ‘praise and worship’. I thought to myself, Why is my spirit being moved (in an enjoyable way) by this pagan music? At this point I began to wonder about what sort of spirits I had opened myself up to.
Anyway, the ‘new mystics’ meeting that I ended up at last week (I didn’t know that is who they were) caused me to still feel that something wasn’t right. Although my eyes had been opened to the deception, I still felt there was still a spiritual tie. I say this because my ’sprit’ would respond to what was happening in the meeting at times even though it was obviously chaotic. Also during worship some people came up while I was worshipping and prayed for me. Again I felt that this wasn’t good.
The few days that followed this meeting where pretty awful emotionally. I felt drained, down and depressed. I then remembered that this is how I would often feel when I would come out of the Toronto meetings. In those days I would interpret this as God bringing negative stuff to the surface to deal with things. However as this began to happen again I began to doubt that this was the case. I also found it hard to pray and read the word.
Anyway, while in bed, a few nights later, my wife was led to begin to pray for me. As she was praying while laying hands on my stomach she saw ‘a little black thing’. However she noticed that the little black thing was held tight and gripped by a fist. As she prayed it left. She did not tell me this until the morning.
After she had prayed I felt better, went to sleep and woke up the next day much lighter. She then told me what she had seen.
How I interpret it is like this: Through the laying on of hands and opening myself up to a deception the enemy had got access.
Recent events caused me to see the truth of the deception regarding the spirit at work, my eyes where opened but there was still a spiritual tie on the inside (probably due to transference). The fact that it was held tight by a fist caused me to belive that the spirit had been ‘bound’ but that I had not been delivered. Perhaps this binding of the spirit is what has caused me to see the truth, however deliverance did not come until my wife prayed.
Anyway, ever since this experience I have found that a lot of ‘things’ have ‘lifted off me’.
(3) “A SIMILAR EXPERIENCE” – Debylynne
“‘Revival-fire’ – I found your post very interesting, especially when you talked about the “responses” you would feel and sense in yourself to things that you knew were not of God (ie. Indian music) and how similar they were to what you “felt” in response to “god” in these services. I have had the same experiences and it has really troubled me. Even when I was watching the clips about the Kundalini and I would “feel” myself begin to respond and “jerk” and “twitch” and shake and I would turn it off immediately because that rather “freaked me out”. I have never been to Toronto, nor have I had “direct” contact with anyone that has been there – but I have watched the stuff on God TV and I have “laid hands” on the TV screen to “receive” and I thought it was ALL of God.I have repented wholeheartedly, but I wonder if there is still something on the inside of me that needs stronger action taken against it. I have not had my husband pray for me concerning this, but I believe that I WILL…”ANDREW RESPONDS: It is vital to understand that every Christian believer has God-given authority over their own “temple” so-to-speak. Yes – it is important to repent before God with true “godly sorrow” if you have opened yourself up to these spirits. But it is also vital to know that you can COMMAND these things to go in the name of Jesus Christ! I often talk about “RENOUNCING” things from the very depths of your being. It is not just with your ‘mouth only’. You are rejecting and expelling these things with every part of you – spirit, soul and body – in the mighty name of Jesus Christ. And they WILL go!
The same applies to other areas of darkness in people’s lives. If you suffer from depression or a bad temper or any other form of darkness that you can’t seem to get rid of – COMMAND it gone from the very depths of your being in Jesus’ name! I refer to these things as “strongholds” rather than ‘demons’. And I have seen people utterly delivered of things they thought were “ingrained” in them – just by deeply and forcefully COMMANDING them gone in the mighty name of Jesus. Try it! Don’t delay. “The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds” (2 Cor 10:4).God bless you all!Andrew Strom.
Here lays a report written by Andrew Strom about the problems within the ICA because of the Lakeland Revival and about the problems seen by an ICA apostle about Lakeland. Here it is quoted:
First, let me start by saying that Robert Ricciardelli has been incredibly bold and courageous in speaking out on this issue in recent days. He is one of the very few from NAR circles who have dared to speak up – firstly on blogs and on the radio – and even on our own Forum at RevivalSchool.com, etc. Robert is a member – a “marketplace apostle” in Peter Wagner’s “International Coalition of Apostles” ICA). He is the real deal. For him to speak out about Lakeland is a very brave act indeed. Plus he is a Charisma Magazine writer and a friend of Lee Grady.
Last week on July 14th Robert was a guest on Radio KGNW -where he spoke of how he had just come back from Lakeland, and told of his deep concerns and the background research that he had been doing. On July 16th he commented on one Internet blog:“Truth is there are very few people being healed in Lakeland. I have worked with Charisma Magazine editor Lee Grady in discovering how many false reports have been released as facts. These are our brothers and sisters involved in this, but this move of God has been a move of men with God still touching some who come to seek Him.”.
On another blog he wrote: “Charisma reporters and a few others like myself have tried to get these verified and cannot… We actually had offered to help, because any news of a resurrection in my opinion is world news if it can be validated. But then when the totals continued to mount which led to hype and embellishment, they began to ask us to stop asking questions. Hmmmm?.
“Friday night, Todd said that God said there were 1000 people that were to give $1000, and they were to receive a 1000 fold blessing. The one hour drama on this giving subject was so deceptively evident that it was embarrasing to watch. On top of that, those that would give that money were able to come to the platform to be recognized.”.
Concerning the ‘Resurrections’ in Lakeland, Robert wrote: “We have investigated the 20 plus “raised from the dead” claims as we want to report them to the media, and they cannot be verified, but were only called in, or sent in from an email. This is not responsible reporting, and leaves many questions, which also adds to the claims of hype and embellishment.” [~Robert Ricciardelli blog comments - 'jasonclark.ws' & 'stevehickey.wordpress.com'].
The hour-long broadcast that Robert did on KGNW is also causing quite a stir as it does the rounds on the Internet. On our own Forum at RevivalSchool.com, Robert publicly added the following comments:.
“Peter Wagner and Chuck Pierce nominated me as a marketplace apostle 6 years ago. I threw the title away before I ever got it. I am not into titles, but I am into functions. The Lord told us “yes” to engage, and He was going to show us some truth in the process. Being engaged has given us a great oportunity to see the good, the bad, and the ugly of the apostolic/prophetic movements. The biggest thing along the way is the friends and associates we have met that have a biblical worldview much the same as we do….
“After this year we will pray about next year and so far it looks like the Father is giving us a sense that we may not to be a part of the ICA if Peter and the leadership do not reconsider their impromptu decision to jump into the Lakeland stream, when many of us warned him not to. It was a mistake to coronate, when they needed to father and correct Bentley from the direction he is heading others into. It just put more fuel in his errant tank..
“I am praying for Todd, because he really is an evangelist, and he is a gifted evangelist. But he cannot go on embellishing, speaking untruths, hyping, manipulating, shoving, kicking, slapping, leg dropping, and bamming his way on the pulpit without consequences. God will not be mocked, and Todd and others must answer to Him for everyone led astray..
“The biggest thing about Lakeland is the lack of the fear of our Awesome God, lack of repentance and humility. Many have exchanged the truth for a lie and chosen experience over content. Angels, trances, and 3rd heaven focus has replaced the gospel as a focus… Lord do what only you can do to bring your divine alignment to all of us in Jesus name..” [-end quote].
I took note of the fact that Robert said that “many” had warned Peter Wagner not to jump into the Lakeland stream. I also noted that Robert seemed to be saying that he himself may leave the ICA over this issue. I thanked him publicly for his courage in speaking out, and asked him if there really was a lot of disagreement even within Wagner’s own movement?.
Robert replied: “To answer your question, yes there is at least a dozen ICA members that I know of that are extremely concerned at Peter’s endorsement and more to follow as the nonsense continues. The transferring of anointing, the focus on man bringing anything but the gospel is amazing and sad…. if Peter Wagner, Bill Johnson, and some distinguished members of the Who’s Who in Charismania say it is all good, then people just go with it. Some have begun to see the YouTube and other information and begun to change. Some go as far as to claim it as deception, others say it is a move of God that needs correction..
“It is my opinion that it was man orchestrated and demonically influenced from the very beginning. The worship has been good and Roy Fields is an awesome worship leader, so many in the worship and even watching from afar can sense God in the worship of His people. The truth is God has been engaged in the worship and has touched and healed some. This is why it has been so confusing to some. I have heard that Roy Fields has stated a few times that when the worship ends, God’s presence leaves the platform, and then Todd Bentley operates void of His presence. That is why most all of what they have claimed cannot be verified, because it just is not happening..
“We have heard a few people getting well, being touched and so on. There is a church here in North Carolina that brought 27 sick down there for a week. Some with cancer, leukemia, diabetes and such. None got healed and most were worse when they came back. The emperor is not wearing any clothes and the truth must be known. Many are claiming that Todd is the new thing that God is doing. The fact is he is still operating in the old thing, and operating with less integrity and character than the previous one man shows..
“God is about nameless and faceless people who are operating without any agenda but the Lord’s. Preaching about the King and His Kingdom, and moving supernaturally after Him, and as they do, signs and wonders follow. The problem in Charismania is that they seek the sign, they seek the thrill, they seek the craft supply quality gold dust, feathers and gems. They may get the chills and frills, but leave with nothing more than goose bumps and really little spiritual change. When they seek the King, the Kingdom of
God and His righteousness, you begin to see transformation take place at the heart level. This is God’s way and always has been… Bentley is just a product of the Charismatic/apostolic/ prophetic trending away from Plumb line truth. At thesame time the fact is, none of us amount to much, no not one. But in Him and dying to self and living His agenda, we can move mountains… The church is getting there, I wrote an article for Charisma that everything that can be shaken is being shaken, and this is what is happening in a great way right now…” [end quote].
Friends, please write to Robert encouraging him if you can for the courageous stand he is taking.
The following letter was written by Andrew Strom. It is worth noting in the times that we are living in and it is for all of us to judge according to Scripture. Quote:
I write this as a tongues-speaking, Spirit-filled, prophesying believer.
Dear Rick Joyner and C. Peter Wagner,
I will do my utmost to avoid disrespect in this letter. But I cannot avoid the hard questions which must be asked.
I hope my comments here are not construed as “arrogant”. This is certainly not my intent. But I’m sure you have heard the news by now that the tide has turned in what you call your “Civil War”.
I’m sure you have heard that the Lakeland meetings have dwindled, and the “big tent” has been abandoned in favor of the 700-seat Ignite church once again. I’m sure you have heard that your man Todd Bentley’s meetings in England have been cancelled, and that respected leaders even within your own movements have found vast evidence of falsehoods, fraudulent claims, manipulation and hype of the most blatant kind. The news of it is worldwide. It is not just ABC Nightline. It is your own people saying these things.
I’m sure you have heard the news that has even shocked and saddened me – that the British press is calling Bentley “A US child sex offender turned church minister who tries to cure cancer victims by kicking them” – and that 79% of Britons polled want to keep him out of the country. Where is the glory to Jesus in this? How could Todd even set foot in England under such a cloud?
Sirs, if this really were a ‘Civil War’, aren’t you living in Gettysburg?
Mr Wagner, I am sure you are aware that because of your open endorsement of Todd Bentley, numbers of your own ICA ‘apostles’ (some very well-known) are already planning an “alternative” network without all your ‘Dominionist’ trappings or NAR hierarchies. Sir, they are leaving. Are you sure you were right to endorse the Lakeland movement in the very face of your own apostles like that? Wasn’t this one of the most crucial tests of your leadership? Sir, if your discernment is such that you could get on a stage and openly endorse one of the most deceptive movements in the history of the church, then – with all due respect – should you really be heading up the apostles of the entire Charismatic world? Are you aware that you have greatly endangered God’s precious sheep all around the globe?
And Mr Joyner, are you conscious of how terribly the Prophetic movement has deteriorated on your watch, sir? As the most influential ‘father’ in that movement, why have you stood by while the “New Mystics” have taken over – with their gold dust, their
portals, their ‘orbs’, their drunken jerking, their strange “angel” encounters and ‘visualization’ techniques, etc? In fact, why have you actively encouraged and participated in these very things yourself?
Isn’t it true that Bob Jones has been a big mentor for you in these things, just like he was for Todd Bentley? Wasn’t it Bob Jones who taught you how to “visualize” your way into the ‘Third Heaven’, Mr Joyner? Isn’t Bob Jones one of the major hidden influences behind your ministry? Where do you get your visions? How do you write your books? How can we ever again trust the “angels” that you see? Sir, what were you thinking – to openly endorse the “New Mystics” as you did with Todd Bentley? Did you not see that it could end so badly?
We all know what Bob Jones said when he stood on the stage with Todd Bentley in front of the whole world:
BOB: “I released my angels to him… this man from Canada asked for my angels; this Wind of Change is most powerful. Except for the arch angels, this ‘Winds of Change’, this is the most powerful angel…”
BOB TO TODD BENTLEY: “As I watch you, you VIBRATE. You know there are two portals, clockwise and counter-clockwise. When you vibrate you close demonic vibration. Counter-clockwise vibration is demonic. The vibration is healing. Does it seem peculiar?”
[He waves his hands]… “I’m releasing it to you.”
A very basic question here: Is there anything even remotely biblical about any of this?
Mr Joyner, since Bob Jones is your major mentor, and since you stood on the stage and openly endorsed that whole movement, I guess we have to assume that this is the kind of “Prophetic” that you now represent? Isn’t that fair to say, sir?
And now I need to ask some questions of my colleagues overseas: Isn’t it true, my friends, that almost every deceptive fad or heresy of the last 25 years has come out of North America? (ie. The USA and Canada)? And hasn’t it been growing worse and worse?
When I travel to Africa I find deadly “Prosperity” teaching rampant in the most poverty-stricken of nations. When I travel to Europe I find them bombarded with flakey ‘prophets’ from the States. When I travel to Australia I find them enthralled with ‘Mega-church- ‘itis’ imported from the USA. In every way, North America has become a source of utter pollution, sickness and compromise -both in the church and the world. And I believe God wants to put an end to it.
Personally I love Americans. I lived there for four years, and I have many dear friends in that part of the world. But I do not believe that God is going to allow this pollution to spread any longer.
Why do leaders in Australia or Europe think that their movements must be led by Americans? What nation is most of this pollution coming from? Why do African leaders allow sick money-grubbing telecasts from the USA to be beamed to their people via satellite?
Why are any of us allowing any of this garbage? When are we going to stand up and cry, “ENOUGH”? When are we going to cut off this pollution – not just for ourselves – but for the sake of God’s precious sheep? Why should we be led by America if they are leading us into deception?
Should North America even be allowed to lead the worldwide church any more?
And finally, let me return to Mr Joyner – who once intimated that it is time to “drive” out those who want to “test the spirits” in the church. Sir, let me say to you that indeed the time has come to drive a particular spirit out. It is the spirit of rampant “Charis-mania”.
And sir, I have to say with all due respect, that your very own movement strikes me as the primest of prime places in which to start.
The following message was written by Andrew Strom about Wagner and the Lakeland Revival. Judge it yourself! Quote:
Last week we published a number of strong statements against Lakeland by one of Peter Wagner’s ‘apostles’ named Robert Ricciardelli. For those who are not aware, Peter Wagner heads up an organization devoted to setting in place “apostles” over the church. This is known as the ‘New Apostolic Reformation’ (NAR), and it has been very controversial. I myself have never seen it as any kind of true “Reformation” – because all it seems to do is set up another level of hierarchy over the existing ones. I also question whether many of the “apostles” are true apostles – but that is another story. Suffice it to say, that Wagner runs one of the most powerful and far-reaching global networks in the Charismatic world.I don’t know if Peter Wagner fully realized what he was doing when he went down to Lakeland and publicly endorsed Todd Bentley and the ‘revival’ there. But clearly he started a rift in his own movement that may very well almost tear it apart.However, before we discuss this further, it is also important to note that even some “pro-Lakeland” churches are beginning to have second thoughts about supporting that movement – as more factual information begins to emerge about what is really going on.
The following was written by the leader of a “pro-Lakeland” church -and forwarded to me this week. (I have removed the identity of both the leader and the church). This really is an amazing admission for such a “pro-Lakeland” leader to make:
”Hi staff, We need to talk, probably as a staff, and go through what I’ve found out. I had a long talk with Robert Ricciardelli. He’s no revival critic… He loves revival, believes in healing, prophecy and all the rest and is delighted to hear about the healings we’ve had here. He’s a close friend of Stephen Strader… He’s in an accountability relationship with Lee Grady (editor of Charisma Magazine) and is a writer for Charisma on occasion. He’s part of C. Peter Wagner’s apostolic network, recognized by Peter as an apostle. I’ve seen the man’s website and he’s legit, not a heresy hunter.“The reports he has given me are firsthand, not hearsay. I am deeply troubled, grieved and tormented at what I’m hearing. He attributes most of the anointing at Lakeland to Roy Fields (worship leader). I agree.
Roy is nothing but clean and God shows up hugely when he leads worship. I can go into detail later about what is surfacing, but there are huge lapses of integrity going on… Much embellishment. Many claims have been made that simply are not true. The Charisma crew has researched it. I want to weep. My heart is breaking. For now, to be safe and for the sake of integrity, we need to stop speaking about the claimed resurrections. Three of them have been checked out with the doctors and EMTs involved and found never to have happened at all. Todd has been confronted with this and has not adjusted the numbers in his claims. Not a single one of the other claimed resurrections can be substantiated despite diligent effort to do so. Even after Stephen Strader brought it down to 13 (and even those couldn’t be substantiated) Todd ran it back up to 27 and more. Misrepresentation and embellishment! ”On the financial front, Todd recently told the crowd that God had told him that there were 1,000 people who would give $1,000 and that they would be blessed 1,000-fold. Robert called Stephen Strader to confront the unbiblical nature of that appeal. It came out that Todd admitted he hadn’t heard that from God, that it was just an idea he had so that they could raise money to build a big stadium. Robert challenged them to issue an apology the following night based on that false claim of being told by God and they refused to do it on the excuse that it’s a different crowd every night. “That’s the flavor of what I’m finding. There’s a lot more. I’m so grieved I can hardly think. I’m not saying the Lakeland Outpouring is not of God (God is bigger than the men involved), although good men whom I have respected all my life are saying just that (that it’s not of God), based on what they know and have seen…“What I am saying is that we need to back up and not identify ourselves closely with Lakeland and that we need to stop repeating claims being made on the air lest we end up getting splattered with the collateral damage when certain issues of false claims, embellishments and lapses of integrity begin to come out more publicly. By the way, no one is saying that some healings have not happened – only that many false, embellished or unsubstantiated claims have been made. A number of really good men, champions of revival through the years, are actually saying that the whole thing is of the devil and that even the healings are demonically inspired. I want to be clear that I’m not going there…” [-end quote].
So here we have a ‘pro-Lakeland’ church checking out these facts for the first time and now deciding that they “need to back up and not identify ourselves closely with Lakeland.” Pretty amazing! Meanwhile – back to the topic of “apostles” and what is now happening in Peter Wagner’s main ‘ICA’ organization:One of Wagner’s apostles, Robert Ricciardelli, put out an email this week saying that he has received a great deal of support for his stand against Lakeland – the majority of it from pastors. And he also made the following very significant statement:
“As a member of ICA, Peter Wagner actually caused many questions to come my way because of my membership there. I will no longer be involved with that organization and actually have not tracked well with them and some of their agendas since I have been involved with them. However, I have enjoyed the many relationships I have developed from going to the annual meetings. Most all of those relationships are also disengaging from their affiliation with ICA, because of many issues beyond Lakeland.”So clearly Robert is now leaving the ICA – as are other ‘apostles’ that he knows of also. I asked him to clarify this last point.
Robert wrote to me:“The ICA leadership continues to adopt belief systems without seeking the advice and counsel of members. Many of the members do not, and will not support these beliefs, including the support ofanti-biblical behavior and doctrine currently being expressed through Todd Bentley and Fresh fire Ministries. In fact as ICA embraces this, they now have taken a stance that will indirectly have to embrace many of the same ministries, including “New Mystic” John Crowder and others. This escalating focus on angels, experiences, trances, etc is far from the focus of Jesus, His Kingdom, and His righteousness… Many of us who really enjoyed the ICA annual conferences are now forced to make a decision as to whether to continue our involvement with them.”Robert has also stated that he personally was never into “Dominionist” beliefs or the “hierarchical NAR agenda.”
His last statement to me was: “I think that there is a chance that many may disassociate with the ICA depending on Todd continuing to reveal his deceptive doctrine and Peter continuing to support such doctrine.” I wonder if Peter Wagner ever imagined that by endorsing Todd Bentley he may be sowing huge seeds of destruction in his own movement? -Perhaps only time will tell.
Andrew Strom gives a negative report on the revival that is on going through the Ministry of Todd Bentley. We are waiting for any good report to be noted. Always in any movement there are positive and negative reports.
Here is what Andrew Strom wrote:
Many of you will have already heard about the “Healing Revival” that has purportedly broken out in Lakeland, Florida. Today Charisma Magazine put out a piece on it entitled ‘A Holy Ghost Outbreak in Florida’ – “…Charismatics are flocking to the sleepy town of Lakeland, Fla. to attend evangelist Todd Bentley’s unconventional revival services.” Is Charisma preparing to hype this one to the skies like they did with Toronto and Rodney Howard-Browne? It seems perhaps they are.
But why am I opposed to this ‘Healing Revival’ so soon after it has been announced? -It is because I already know Todd Bentley’s ministry all too well, and this whole thing centers around him.
Todd Bentley actually has deep roots in the Prophetic movement, and he is one of the very few ministers that I have ever felt I had to publicly warn people about by name. -His ministry is that bad.
False “angel” encounters of the weirdest kind, gold dust, guided visualizations of the “Third Heaven” that are straight out of the New Age, etc. And yet there is a “power” with it that makes it all the more dangerous.
Here is how Charisma describes his Florida meetings-
“His methods are far from polished. When he prayed for people in Lakeland, he usually began by laying his hand on their heads and then yelling, “Bam!”
Often the people fell backward to the floor. After one elderly woman fell, Bentley told the audience: “She doesn’t know why she fell down.” The woman then laughed and said to him in the microphone: “Because you pushed me!” He prayed for her three more times that night, and she said she could hear better…
During the past three weeks people have testified of being healed from heart conditions, skin rashes and back problems, and many said scars disappeared…
Many charismatics are wondering if the protracted meetings will become a phenomenon similar to what happened in Rodney Howard-Browne’s meetings in Lakeland in 1993, at the Toronto Airport Vineyard Church in Canada in 1994 and at Brownsville Assembly of God in Pensacola in 1995…” [END QUOTE]
Sadly, the Charismatic movement is in such a sick state today that it would not surprise me at all if this happens. (-I say this as a strong Spirit-filled, tongues-speaking believer myself. I am by no means opposed to genuine miracles). Have we completely forgotten the warnings of “Lying signs and wonders” in the Last Days?
Below is a testimony by Lynn Clark who is a Moderator at our website ‘RevivalSchool.com’. This is what she wrote about her involvement with Todd Bentley’s ministry:
“I decided to check out Patricia King and Todd Bentley and,
ignorant of their ‘third heaven’ guided visualizations, attended a five day conference of Patricia King and then two of Todd Bentley’s conferences and began to imagine third heaven visitations – guided visualization – still not realizing that these are actually spirits of darkness – the New Age calls them spirit guides – demons is what
they are. And so I bought Todd Bentley’s teaching on third heaven visitations and brought it home to listen to.
“I was in my living room laying on the floor listening to the teaching on how to visualize the third heaven and what to say and was getting caught up into his teaching and all of a sudden I began to shake uncontrollably and jerk and groan, and no sooner had this taken place I became frozen stiff – I could not move any part of my body and I knew this was a demon trying to take hold of me, and so with all the effort I could muster I cried out, “God save me – Jesus help me” – and as soon as I cried out to the Lord my body went limp.
God spared me that night and I will be forever grateful.
“I spent much of the night in tears asking God to forgive me – and renouncing all the hands layed on me and all the awful deception I had opened myself up to…” [END QUOTE]
ANDREW AGAIN: I myself have heard the tapes of Todd Bentley’s “Third Heaven Visualization” teachings, and I want to tell you – they are straight out of the New Age handbook. -Terrible stuff. And yet so widely accepted by thousands of Christians today.
Do these kinds of practices (above) produce a genuine ‘Healing Revival’? -These are the kinds of questions that we need to be asking Charisma Magazine. I leave it for you to decide.
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